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Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entirely
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=22745		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Vaaish [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:43 am ]
Post subject:  Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entirely
This is the second poll dealing with IG style units in the AdMech lists. Please vote and explain your answer below. This poll will be open for 14 days.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
Here again I believe we are creating differentiation where there is no reason to beleive any exists. In fact, the Mach was added to the Skittle list because it is specifically chronicled as being used by AdMech forces in Titanicus. If need be I can give a page reference. Only one other list uses the Mach, and it's chassis is very different from a Minorus, though the two naturally compete to some degree.

While I understand the wish/need to make Skitarii more than "Red Guard", I think the recent documentation (Titanicus and Mechanicus), and also references in the 40K BRB to them being equipped(paraphrasing) 'to storm trooper levels' indicates that in many ways that is exactly what they are. Extensively cyborged, and with top-of-the-line or experimental equipment, but still recognisably Guard-like.
Author:  Vaaish [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
Meh... since I'm tricksy like that, I actually made the poll question "should the macharius STAY". I've updated the poll to match the actual topic title. My bad.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
And now my vote is in the wrong column. Count me as +1 yes instead and -1 no.
Author:  Vaaish [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
So, yes it should be removed? That doesn't seem to match what you wrote.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
Retracted,as the other. I'll remove my foot from my mouth now, thank you.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
One particular Forgeworld was noted as using them in one paragraph in one book once.

On those grounds you could justify including basically every tank in the game.

Now, why are the Ad Mech, masters of arcane technology, using a crappy 2nd generation Baneblade as part of the core force?
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
Because the first generation Baneblades were removed?

I think your question deals more with the reasoning behind that earlier decision, but it's done and over, so I'll not elaborate.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
If the Ad Mech are going to keep their crappy newfangled 2nd generation Baneblades, there's no reason not to bring back the 1st generation ones too. No reason at all.

Gryphonne IV is renowned for making vanquisher cannons too, so I hope we see leman russ vanquishers in the list soon too.

Also chimeras, because if they can make chimeraxes they can certainly make chimeras.

The AMTL list should get Titan drop ships that can drop Imperators too because they appeared in one of the Horus heresy books once.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
See, now we're going overboard. Some changes were neccessary to differentiate the Skitarii from Red Guard, I accept that. I personally would prefer to have 1st Gen Baneblades back, and drop the Machs. I also think you're right on the Vanqs, sarcastic as the remark may have been.

However. We are given a list that has had those removed, and removed for a reason. I personally may not agree, but that's immaterial to the list. I think that Machs are one of the last vestages of Guard left in the list, and that there should be some nod to the list's ancestry, even if it's just a couple units. There is precendent to keep them, they aren't unbalancing anything as far as I can see, and so I think we can leave them alone.

I prefer to address problems with the list instead of rearranging it constantly. We can iron out the issues with the new units and those that are problematic, then concentrate on structural issues. Fine tuning structure must come second to getting a balanced list, IMO, unless you feel that the structural changes you are suggesting will drastically change the list's balance themselves. In which case they are are balance issues, aren't they?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
I wasn't being sarcastic, I genuinely think that if the list has 3 types of macharius tank then it should definitely have baneblades, shadowswords, stormblades, leman russ vanquishers, and chimeras. Stormswords optional.
Author:  dptdexys [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
I put my vote in the wrong box too (need more than 2-3 hours sleep in future).
+1 to yes -1 to no, sorry.

I prefer all lists to be as streamlined as possible, using mainly iconic units.
I can then add in other options myself for scenario and friendly games if needs be.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
Evil and Chaos wrote:

The AMTL list should get Titan drop ships that can drop Imperators too because they appeared in one of the Horus heresy books once.



HELL YES!

it'd actually give the spaceship something to do, no one would ever be able to justify it's use in games less then 5000 pts and it'd be frikken cool. sold!

I voted keep the machs, simply becuase they fit the slow and overwhelming firepower general theme of th list, they're noted in the fluff, and they only appear in 1-2 other lists.
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Now, why are the Ad Mech, masters of arcane technology, using a crappy 2nd generation Baneblade as part of the core force?

I agree with this. However, I haven't read titanicus.
Author:  Man of kent [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skitarii Poll 02: Should the Macharius be removed entire
I voted keep but purely from selfish reasons.

I've been working on a collection of imperial models to to fulfil the role of several army lists and play styles: I fear removing mach's would mean buying more models with money i don't have.
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