Hey everyone,
The purpose of the thread is to provide a DRAFT document containing changes under review and in need of testing for the next update of the AMTL/Skitarii list. These changes are NOT final until they are released as the official PDF and are only provided to facilitate testing and review prior to releasing an updated list.

What this means is this: the draft list is for friendly games only and should not be used in tournaments, but please test this as hard as you can!

So, without further blathering on my part, here's the current Draft list changes:

V3.2 TEST AMTL changes:
God Machines rule modified

V2.02 TEST Skitarii Changes:
Removed Sentinels
Removed Flak Support detachment
Removed Praetorian Support detachment
Removed Fire Support detachment
Modified Infantry Support Upgrade
Modified Praetorians to 4+ armor and an AA shot
Added Secutors
Added Sagitarii
Added Crusader Scout Robot Maniple
Added Colossus Assault Robot Maiple

The file is attached below.

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-Vaaish

You're aware that you can pin this yourself, Vaaish? You're AC - you have mod powers in this section of the forum. I'll take a look-see at the list.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I looked for the option in there and I couldn't find anything to let me pin it. I'll check again.

EDIT: Found it...

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-Vaaish

I'll PM you.

Edit - Then ignore that PM.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Typo: oe/or
Wouldn't it be clearer to write "If any Scout or Battle Titan formation is destroyed, then all friendly formations within line of sight receive one blast marker each."? English is not my first language, but the former could be misinterpreted to mean "one blast marker in total"...

Sagitarii can't take transports - is that intentional?

The conversion beamer probably need a FAQ already; It's the only weapon (to my knowledge) with a split-range profile like that:
- If the target formation has units both within and outside 30cm, which profile is used?
- Which units in the target formation are eligible to be allocated hits?

For now, yes this is intentional. I'm not saying that they won't get transports but if they do they become a very fast, heavily armed and fairly resilient force which felt a bit too effective.


Unless I made a mistake, the profile is split with OR which means you have to pick one profile or the other. It's fully up to the player which profile they want to use, but you wouldn't be able to hit units further away with the 30cm profile.

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-Vaaish

but you can kill people outside of 45cm range with an autocannon, so long as there are targets in range to begin shooting at...

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

As they are, however, they are pretty much useless, since they can't get to where they are needed...

It's split with an OR, sure enough. But say that I'm firing at an enemy formation with 10 units, one of which is outside 30cm range. I pick the better profile, of course, and fire 8 high-quality shots. But does that mean that only the single unit outside 30cm is eligible for being allocated hits? If yes, this means that the gun can be used to "snipe" the rear of enemy formations, which is interesting if not exactly gamebreaking. If hits are allocated normally, nearest units first, then it should at least be mentioned.

They can still be used as a garrison force or support unmounted infantry or armor if you decided to take the Rapiers. There's a lot of options for them without transport, just not the one that would make them a little too good. Do you really want to see a 30cm formation with 19 AP5+ shots at 30cm or 13 AT5+ shots? The formation would be making something like 6 AP hits if it got to shoot which over rides their function as primarily FF support for the Hypaspists. They'd be a no brainer take since they'd cost a bit more than a hypaspist and perform the role far better. Without access to transport they are a lot less scary but not useless.



I don't see why hits would spill onto units that aren't in range. You have to assign hits on targets that are in range and LOS. In your example, if you used the second profile, you'd still assign hits from front to back, but there would only be a single valid target regardless of how many dice you get to roll. That aside, how would this be any different than moving any other formation so that only a single enemy stand was in range to "snipe" it?

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-Vaaish

That's not how hit allocation works, is it?

This is how I thought it works:

Say you have a formation with 9 30cm shots and one 45cm shot (like a Baran infantry company). If they fire on an enemy formation, you first check who are in range to fire, say 7 infantry and the commander, so 8 dice. You now roll this, and generate 3 hits. You then allocate them to enemy units that are in range and los of at least one attacking unit, but don't care about which hits were generated by which units - so if the infantry (30cm) are in range of only on unit total, but there are 2 more units in range of the commander, you still allocate all three hits.

Am I wrong in this?

I doublechecked it last night before I posted, and on reading your comments I checked again. All pages are from the main rules.

p19 to shoot you have to be in range and have LOF to at least one unit in the target formation and not be suppressed.
p20 allocate hits and make saving throws. the first line says you must allocate hits inflicted on your formation against targets that are within range and LOF of the enemy. Goes on to talk about allocating multiple hits.

I think what you said is the same as what I'm saying up to allocating the hits. The rules make it very clear that the units that are hit have to be in range and LOS to be hit so I'd gather the infantry would have to put their two hits on the only unit in range and the commander would have to put his hit on the next closest unit in range. I don't think this is something that comes into play very often. In most of my games it's pretty rare to end up in a situation like this and it really doesn't matter who generated the hit.


EDIT: another thought. With the change in stats to the Executioner Russ, using the new stats would make it a rather lackluster short ranged unit. What do people think about replacing it with a Laser Destroyer. They are supposed to be few in number and difficult to produce which is why IG only has a very limited number.

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-Vaaish

I can't find any support for the "I think" part in the rules.

Relevant passages:

"In order to shoot, a unit must be in range and have a line of fire to at least one unit in the target formation, and must not be suppressed."

"You must allocate hits inflicted on your formation against targets that are within range and line of fire of the enemy."

That's it. There's nothing about tracking separate hits to make sure that they're allocated correctly - you first check, who gets to shoot? Then roll dice and place all hits in the "hit pool". After that, you allocate the hits according to the rule, making sure that no unit that is not in range and line of fire of the enemy is hit.

I'm guessing the reason it works like this is for ease of play - instead of tracking each separate attack (and that can get very tedious if you have two units in range of only one enemy, another being the only one in position to see around a corner at another enemy and then two units with extra range who can hit a third enemy) you simply check which units can attack and then which enemy units can be hit.

Normally it doesn't come up, but with the split range weapon it might "feel" wrong more often in play, as you only need one unit in the longest range band to use the better attack values.

I'm afraid you're mistaken here.

Hits from a single formation are pooled then allocated. In Ulrik's example you would hit all three targets. You measure how many units can shoot in his example 8 and any hits generated can be allocated on any unit within 45cm the max range of all the units firing. Ranges can effectively be stretched in epic. It is a very common tactic with orc and Tau lists.

Real world bullets don't suddenly stop when they reach max effective range, so a variable max range isn't wrong. When I was in the army they told us the effective range of the G3 was 200m, but the bullet travels about 4000m unless it hits something.

This part is the relevant section. In Speakers example, only one stand is in range and LOF. The rules don't let you allocate hits generated to something not in range so if you pick the second profile for the Conversion beamer, you could only assign hits to things that are outside of 30cm. I don't see any way around that without bending the "within range" part of the rules. There is also precedence for differentiating a hit with Marcro Weapons hits only being applied to units in position to be hit by a MW.

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-Vaaish