Tactical Command
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Carapace Multilaser vote.
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=15964		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Let's have a vote about what stats the Carapace multilaser should have.
Author:  clausewitz [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Both options still costed at 25 points?
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
That's a good point.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Wouldn't cost be determined *after* stats had been determined?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Quote: (Chroma @ 25 Jun. 2009, 15:59 )

Wouldn't cost be determined *after* stats had been determined?

Indeed.
Author:  clausewitz [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Yes, they might.  But a cost change could/would change how I/others might vote.

IMO, 25 points for 2x AA5+ is a bargain to begin with.  A hydra gives you the same AA (with 15cm more range) for twice the cost (but CML are on a very hard to suppress platform).  If the points were to reamin at 25 I would vote for NOT adding the AP/AT shots.  If the points were increased that might change.

[ Edit: E&C replied while I was writing. Twice..  :)) ]
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Possible point allocations would be 25pts for 2x AA5+, and something more expensive for the AP/AT version.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 25 Jun. 2009, 11:07 )

Possible point allocations would be 25pts for 2x AA5+, and something more expensive for the AP/AT version.

More expensive for an AP/AT version? In that case you might as well leave at it AA only, because I'll probably never take a CML for more than 25 points.
Author:  Vaaish [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Nor would I. Though I am curious at the discussion that brought about this change in the first place. I don't remember there being any calls that CML's were OP in any way, just that it suddenly changed with the advent of the new list because of some talks on the french forum.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Quote: (Vaaish @ 25 Jun. 2009, 16:57 )

Nor would I. Though I am curious at the discussion that brought about this change in the first place. I don't remember there being any calls that CML's were OP in any way, just that it suddenly changed with the advent of the new list because of some talks on the french forum.

I had seen them as slightly too good too.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 25 Jun. 2009, 11:59 )

Quote: (Vaaish @ 25 Jun. 2009, 16:57 )

Nor would I. Though I am curious at the discussion that brought about this change in the first place. I don't remember there being any calls that CML's were OP in any way, just that it suddenly changed with the advent of the new list because of some talks on the french forum.

I had seen them as slightly too good too.

Really? It seemed fine to me.
Author:  Vaaish [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
I actually find CML somewhat lackluster at AA with the ground shots helping make them more useful. CML are one of the titan legion's two real sources of AA firepower(lysander fighters won't show up often, and marauders really aren't AA specific), the second being the thin skinned thunderbolts. About all they seem useful for under most circumstances is putting a BM on an attacking aircraft which isn't a very good AA deterrent and I'm not sure it would be worth the 25 point cost for AA alone.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Quote: (Vaaish @ 25 Jun. 2009, 17:16 )

About all they seem useful for under most circumstances is putting a BM on an attacking aircraft which isn't a very good AA deterrent.

It's good for putting a Blast marker on air assualting formations... that's the "deterent" I usually see it used as.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
Having the ground shot is very useful for fire support Titans.

Imagine a Reaver with 3x Las Burners, which doubles up to an enemy formation. It then lays a blast marker with its Carapace Multilasers.

Something else then Engages, with the Reaver in support, being able to claim +2 for BM's, plus having the Firefighty Reaver in support...

...quite powerful.
Author:  Vaaish [ Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Carapace Multilaser vote.
being able to claim +2 for BM's
I assume this is +1 for no BM and +1 for the enemy having more BM than you?

Imagine a Reaver with 3x Las Burners, which doubles up to an enemy formation...
While powerful no doubt (~8 hits + ~3 for a warhound pack) this is a very ideal situation. You first have to have the reaver within a 54cm of whatever you plan to attack, and then have whichever supporting unit within 34cm to 44cm or less of the same unit. All this assumes that no intervening terrain must be moved around and that your formations are without BM to start too.

I don't see this mechanically as any different than a marine list that shoots a speeder detachment around to drop a BM and retains with an air assault. I think the difficulty involved justifies the slightly more potential hits and doesn't provide the AMTL list with an unfair advantage seeing that they are working with even fewer activations than marines on average.
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