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Availability of Imperator Titans
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14443		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  vytzka [ Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Is there any particular reason why Adeptus Mechanicus army list in AMTL doesn't allow Imperator titans?

Is it for balance? I'm kinda thinking of building an Ordinatus Mars, would that be a bit too much barrage goodness together with a Hellstorm cannon?
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
E&C's Legio Gryhponicus list does allow Imperators with reduced stats.

As a more direct answer, yes, there are innate balance problems with units that large.  Both the firepower and the durability of them strain the basic game mechanics.  That strain makes it very hard to balance for the GT scenario.  For example, at a 3000 point tournament most armies will have extremely limited options for dealing with an Imperator, even with E&C's reduced stats.

For the OGBM list (Gargants) I included the "collectors' models" stats for the MegaGargant for use in scenarios.  I'm waiting on feedback about both the mechanics and feel of the reduced-stat Imperator.  If E&C's experiment is successful I will probably mirror it for the OGBM list.
Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
IMO there really should be (at least) a second set of more realistic stats for the mega titans.  There have been way too many good ideas that have gone around to not include them (splitting fire is just one example) and the only argument against them has been that the units would unbalance tournament games (2700-5000 points).  

However, people playing these units aren't really running the tournament circuits.  These are just-for-fun units and would be better represented with higher point costs.  2400pts, 3000pts, whatever it takes.  That way they could be used in larger games or titan-only games or a mix of the two.  

Ultimately it may be that the mega titans will find their way into a subset of Epic rules that deals with larger battles, but it would be nice to see that new set of rules be able to mesh with EA rules as much as possible.

FYI I'm also waiting on the AMTL list since I've got a larger titan in the Lugganath Craftworld and I want to keep things consistent across the board.
Author:  vytzka [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Quote: (nealhunt @ 05 Jan. 2009, 17:20 )

E&C's Legio Gryhponicus list does allow Imperators with reduced stats.

Yes, but not the more general Adeptus Mechanicus list.

Titan Legions list is very limited, and that's cool, but it's the only list now that allows you to use an Imperator. That's kinda sad, though I understand the want for balance very well.
Author:  dasphynx [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Hoi all.  Since I have TWO Imperator Titans, I am kinda looking for a list that I can use them with that doesn't nerf all the fun out of them.  

I also like the idea of large, MEGA-battles using Epic.  Really large-scale conflicts and not tournaments.  I really don't like tournaments (for personal reasons....  in reality, if you are fighting a tournament-style battle you have screwed up by the numbers....  but that is my opinion only.  Treat it as ye will)
Author:  zombocom [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Quote: (vytzka @ 05 Jan. 2009, 15:36 )

Quote: (nealhunt @ 05 Jan. 2009, 17:20 )

E&C's Legio Gryhponicus list does allow Imperators with reduced stats.

Yes, but not the more general Adeptus Mechanicus list.

Titan Legions list is very limited, and that's cool, but it's the only list now that allows you to use an Imperator. That's kinda sad, though I understand the want for balance very well.

The point is that Imperators are supposed to be very rare, so are only available in the fully titan legion army, not the ad-mech tech guard list.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Quote: (zombocom @ 22 Feb. 2009, 22:23 )

Quote: (vytzka @ 05 Jan. 2009, 15:36 )

Quote: (nealhunt @ 05 Jan. 2009, 17:20 )

E&C's Legio Gryhponicus list does allow Imperators with reduced stats.

Yes, but not the more general Adeptus Mechanicus list.

Titan Legions list is very limited, and that's cool, but it's the only list now that allows you to use an Imperator. That's kinda sad, though I understand the want for balance very well.

The point is that Imperators are supposed to be very rare, so are only available in the fully titan legion army, not the ad-mech tech guard list.

That was pretty much my reasoning; They're something ultra-special that only a full Titan Legion would have access to.

For the OGBM list (Gargants) I included the "collectors' models" stats for the MegaGargant for use in scenarios.  I'm waiting on feedback about both the mechanics and feel of the reduced-stat Imperator.  If E&C's experiment is successful I will probably mirror it for the OGBM list.

So far I've had a few reports back, mostly positive.
Author:  dasphynx [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
So does this mean I would now have FOUR armies?  SM, IG, AM (Titans), and AM (Knight Household).....
Author:  semajnollissor [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
I'd say 5 armies:

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Adeptus Mechanicus Tech Guard
Adeptus Mechanicus Titan Legion
Knights

Even more, depending on the different flavors of IG and SM you could pull off.
Author:  dasphynx [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
....Tech Guard?  Curious on how you got that idea?  Not really interested in the AMTL except for Titans.

  As for the Imperial Guard I am leaning toward mechanized-heavy forces.  So just the one there.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Yes, we had this discussion here before somewhere ... IIRC ... Are not the Tech Guard/Skatarii attached to the AM/TLs ?   :rock:
Author:  dasphynx [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Yes they are but, unless I am mistaken, no one is required to take any of them.  And I am reserving my infantry/tanks/artillery for my Imperial Guard forces.  Steel Legion most likely.  The Baran Siegemasters and Minervan Tank Forces are good lists, but I like the concept of combined arms (throw everything AND the kitchen sink at the enemy.)  It works well in the real world; depending on the terrain and mission.  With the Steel Legion list I can have tank/infantry/mech infantry and artillery companies all in the same list.  But that is me.

  One thing I feel I should point out, I am really NOT interested in tournament scenarios...  I am too much attached to reality.  In other words, if you show up on a battlefield not of your choosing with a force that is nominally equal to your opponent then things are either desperate for your side or your General/Warleader is a fool who has screwed up by the numbers!  The purpose of strategic planning is arrive at the battlefield with an advantage (be it numbers, quality or terrain) over your opponent.  For this reason I tend to shy away from tournaments in favor of campaigns where the forces may not be balanced (provided all players agree to this beforehand.)
Author:  vytzka [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Quote: (zombocom @ 23 Feb. 2009, 00:23 )

The point is that Imperators are supposed to be very rare, so are only available in the fully titan legion army, not the ad-mech tech guard list.

That's tough, but fair :)
Author:  Krieger [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Quote: (Legion 4 @ 23 Feb. 2009, 05:09 )

Yes, we had this discussion here before somewhere ... IIRC ... Are not the Tech Guard/Skatarii attached to the AM/TLs ?   :rock:

The Skitarii are attached to Titan Legions (not exclusively but, you rarely seem them not accompanying Legios).
Tech Guard sometimes refer to Skitarii but more usually the term Tech Guard refers to the PDF units raised on Forge Worlds or other Mechanicus worlds.
(Read Titanicus by Dan Abnett. Skitarii are the infantry of Legio Tempestus and Legio Invicta, Tech Guard are the Orestes defense forces like Activated 26)
Author:  Legion 4 [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Availability of Imperator Titans
Well being an old school type ... I'll take Gav Thorpe's word. In Citadel Journal 21, pg. 5, 1997 ...  Gav wrote - "Along side these massive war engines, the Cult Mechanicus also has its regiments of Skitarii. Known to the uncouth and uninitiated as the Tech-Guard, the Skitarii are raised from the populations of the Forge Worlds and are armed and trained in a similar fashion to the Imperial Guard. The Skitarii provide a defensive force for the Forge Worlds and also provide infantry and armoured support for the Titan Legions when they go on campaign."                   Sorry to go all OT on ya Boyz ... :blush:   Any way I'm a firm believer that titans in general are like land Battleships.  Mobile Heavy Fire Support Platforms to support the ground forces. And are far fewer than any other type of unit in the Imperial Forces. That being said, I would think the Imperator Titan class is like a Super Heavy Battleship. Like the Yamato or Musashi of the WWII IJN.  So there would be only one or two per TL, IMO ...  We see Titans like warships in that a Warlord is = to a Battleship(BB) or Battle Cruiser(BC), a Reaver = a Light(CL) or Armored Cruiser(CA), a Warhound = a Destroyer(DD). And Knights(which we don't like much and have few) = Escort Destroyers(DE) or Frigates(FG).  That being said, there would be less of the heavier warships then the lighter ships ... IMO ...    BUT ... as always ... DWWFY ... :;):
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