Tactical Command
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Different Titan Classes
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12304		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
Instead of writing a new datafax for each titan class (Which would, conservatively require three times the ammount as currently), how about we introduce the following three upgrades:

Extra Shield Generators ? +2 Void Shields. Takes up one carapace weapon slot. 50pts

Overcharged Servos ? +5cm Speed, -2 Void Shields. Free

Centreline Weapon Mount ? Allows a weapon to be mounted on the titan?s head. -5cm speed,  -2 Void shields. 50pts


This would allow most forms of Titan to be created without recourse to multiple chassis points costs and classes.



Oh and just for old time's sake:

Rubble Claws ? The Titan counts ruins and woods as open terrain, -5cm speed, may not undertake the March order. Free




Thoughts?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
Rubble claws - yay - but no need for the march bit (how often do you see marching titans?).

Historically wise it was less weapons more speed as opposed to less shields.

Head wise mounting any weapons could be a little strange. Couldn't you use it to make CC head - +2EA CC or Weapons head - +1EA FF, either one 25 points.
Then if you wanted another level of stuff Cannon (insert stats) or Corvus (carry 5 stands) +25 points and -5cm speed?

Biggest problem with upgrades like the speed/shields etc is you would have to do it by type. The effect is very different for Reavers say as opposed to Warlords (who wouldn't want a speed 20cm warlord with two less shields?!).
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
Rubble claws - yay - but no need for the march bit (how often do you see marching titans?).

I marched a Warhound Pack to contest an objective in the last game I played (Which I won 2-1 because of that march move, if I hadn't have contested my own blitz, it would have been a 2-2 draw).

Admittedly that was Warhounds, but IIRC rubble claws did originally reduce what type of order the Titan could undertake, as well as modifying the speed.

Head wise mounting any weapons could be a little strange. Couldn't you use it to make CC head - +2EA CC or Weapons head - +1EA FF, either one 25 points.
Then if you wanted another level of stuff Cannon (insert stats) or Corvus (carry 5 stands) +25 points and -5cm speed?

I could do that, but that involves adding another ~5 weapons to the list, rather than allowing the player to say:

'Well, I add a Quake Cannon to the head, and that's a centreline macro-cannon, or a Carapace Landing Pad, and that's a Fire Control Head...'

Biggest problem with upgrades like the speed/shields etc is you would have to do it by type. The effect is very different for Reavers say as opposed to Warlords (who wouldn't want a speed 20cm warlord with two less shields?!).

What if it took up a weapon slot?

Or cost some points?

+25pts for Warlord, Free for Reaver?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
Well see the other thread for an idea as to how you could present such a split cost thing.

Weapon type wise surely it would be

Vet princepts or SC (already in) - Command heads
Weapon heads - +1EA FF or +2 EA CC
Cannon head (if you wanted it, otherwise its a weapon head) - -5cm speed, and if you make it a BP weapon its only going to be taken by Reavers!
Corvus head (again if you wanted it, I would tend to say the corvus pod was actually the corvus system which was the arm mount, head mount, other stuff).

Having a free pick so a centerline TLD, Volcano cannon or deathstrike missile seems a little odd. Though not too odd to do though :)


(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 12 2008,13:00)
QUOTE
Admittedly that was Warhounds, but IIRC rubble claws did originally reduce what type of order the Titan could undertake, as well as modifying the speed.

Just seems to be a bit of fluff that would never actually matter much. the drop in speed already has the slow down effect.

Hell you could make it rubble claws, no march order, +25 points. -5cm move is really two big a thing for titans.
Author:  Ginger [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
I do like the "upgrade" mechanic because it provides a clear and simple mechanic with several potential variants per Titan.

However, I suspect that it may be very hard to define each upgrade to avoid the pitfalls described by Chris, which was one of the reasons why I outlined the separate upgrades permitted to each titan type (and why for example, the Warhound was not given a faster variant), but as others put it YVMV :)

I do agree with Rug that the occasional *strange* variant may be fun
Author:  zombocom [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:30 am ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
I'm not convinced these add much to the list, other than an unneccesary level of complexity.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
I could quite easily take any of the options above, but don't feel that they are needed as yet. Lets get the weapons sorted first and then add in some extras if required.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes

(zombocom @ Apr. 13 2008,04:30)
QUOTE
I'm not convinced these add much to the list, other than an unneccesary level of complexity.

I'm not convinced either, but I wanted to find the simplest level of complexity to provide the required titan classes, if we decide to go down that route.

Looks like three Upgrades is the way to do it.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
I think open chassis changes like this will multiply options to the extent that it becomes problematic to balance all the possible combos.  Chris's point about the "fixed" upgrades being proportionally different on the differing chassis is quite correct as well.

I wouldn't try to do this for a generic catch-all titan list.  I might include the option for 1 or 2 restricted or semi-fixed "alternate chassis" configurations in a generic list, but in general I'd say leave them for variant lists.
Author:  ragnarok [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
It could judt be me, but the horus heresy novels imply that hunnight gaunt and so on are not variants, but different types of titan all together.

The quote that got me thinking is

"A host of battle titans of the legio Mortis stood ready for war: fast, mid-ranged Reavers, snarling warhounds and the mighty Warlords - as well as some of the newer Night Gaunt-class Titans..."
Author:  BlackLegion [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
Well a Night Gaunt is essentially a Warlord with the speed of a Reaver the void shields of a Warhound and 2 arm-weapons. One is usually (opk i know only of two :D )some kind of cc-weapon.
Author:  ragnarok [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes

(BlackLegion @ Apr. 14 2008,16:38)
QUOTE
Well a Night Gaunt is essentially a Warlord with the speed of a Reaver the void shields of a Warhound and 2 arm-weapons. One is usually (opk i know only of two :D )some kind of cc-weapon.

So, let me get my head round this.

A night Gaunt isn't a variant of the warlord. ?It is just a warlord size slow warhound. ?A heavy scout titan.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes

(ragnarok @ Apr. 15 2008,14:10)
QUOTE

(BlackLegion @ Apr. 14 2008,16:38)
QUOTE
Well a Night Gaunt is essentially a Warlord with the speed of a Reaver the void shields of a Warhound and 2 arm-weapons. One is usually (opk i know only of two :D )some kind of cc-weapon.

So, let me get my head round this.

A night Gaunt isn't a variant of the warlord.  It is just a warlord size slow warhound.  A heavy sout titan.

Adeptus Titanicus did have some strange Warlord configurations. It's possible that Warlord stats were originally created before Reavers and Warhounds even thought of during the design process for AT.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Different Titan Classes
@ragnarok: Not Scout.
The Nightgaunt is a heavy Assault/CloseCombat Titan.
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