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Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=11266 |
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Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
Well, there's even *more* options in there than there was in your previous list... |
Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
It's about five times too complicated. Sorry Blarg but barring a few of your weapon stats, I can't even begin to support this proposal. |
Author: | Chroma [ Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
Er... should the Stormblade be the "Lucius" pattern... not the "Lucious" pattern... unless it's supposed ?to be FABULOUS! ? ![]() Even after reading it over, the list still seems to have *WAY* too many options! ?You've got eleven different Tech Guard units, ten choices of Leman Russ, five different super-heavy tank variants allowed (assuming Tech Guard can choose Baneblades and Shadowswords), all the Knights... and over *fifty* Titan weapon options on top of that all. In what is, ostensively, a Titan Legion list, it's got "all that and the kitchen sink"... it just seems to be far to broad an armylist to be even remotely playtestable. What's your objective/purpose with this list, Blarg? ?It just seems too unfocused to be usable to me. |
Author: | BlackLegion [ Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
Wow. Kind of a Jack-of-all-trades armylist for all manners of Adeptus Mechanicus. Sure this is Titan centric? And the options.....just...wow. How would you playtest this beast? It will take forever to try out even half of the viable and useful combinations. |
Author: | ragnarok [ Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
The 2nd 3rrd and 4th weapon slots seem a bit overkill for the few weapons systems you have given such things to. Why not just say 1st inferno gun grade 6, subsequent inferno guns count as grade 7. also if I take rubble claws how do they help? being head mounted! I also think it has far too many toys i the list. |
Author: | Crabowl [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
(Blarg D Impaler @ Dec. 21 2007,07:08) QUOTE Considering a lot of that stuff was in SM/TL and people didn't have problems keeping track of it then, why is it such a problem with this edition of the game? Short version: People are dumber these days than they were back then. Long version: Thanks to the stupidifying effect of pop culture's here and now mentality and all those crazy usability improvements in everything we use from computers to door handles, people have started to get dumber. If you can't see everything in a glimpse and figure out if you like it or not, you probably don't. If you can't easilly grasp the concept you begin to feel stupid and in order to get over it, you project the feeling to the thing at hand since that must be stupid (some people beat their wives instead). |
Author: | nealhunt [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
Considering a lot of that stuff was in SM/TL and people didn't have problems keeping track of it then, why is it such a problem with this edition of the game? It's the same "problem" that has been brought up the last dozen times you asked that, Blarg. It's not a matter of the ability to "keep track" of the detail. It never has been. It's a matter of taste. Most players just do not find your vision of AMTL list mechanics to be fun. Period. Not that your list can't work. Not that people are stupid. Just. Not. Fun. |
Author: | Dwarf Supreme [ Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
I have to agree with Neal. In particular, you've made arming Titans far more complicated than it needs to be. |
Author: | BlackLegion [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
The content. Designing an army with your list seems to be more work than the actual battle. In Germany we say: "Ich seh den Wald for lauter B?umen nicht." = "I don't see the Forest because of the Trees." |
Author: | Ilushia [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
Playing with the list a little because of all the options and units and suchlike along with the special rules and content etc, it becomes rather mind-blowing to try to decide what to arm everything with (then again I'm horribly indecisive on arming my titans even with only a few options! ![]() Is it intended to be shooty? Assaulty? Fast? Slow? What upsides does it have? What downsides does it have? It's tough for me to look at the list and answer those questions with the amount of options in the list. Which isn't by necessity a BAD thing, but tends to make it more difficult for me to decide what I want to do with it exactly. |
Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
What downsides does it have? The list has no downsides equipment-wise, as you can take everything. |
Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
The idea is BL you use a mathematical system to limit the playtesting, with an anomalous results fed back into it to reduce future testing and so on. To be fair if you only have the odd game its a great titan system if you can balance it as you can plan to your hearts content. I just think the non titan units lack focus. If anyone wants it as one file, here it is. |
Author: | Markconz [ Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
I'm wondering if a comprehensive list like this might have a useful role for scenarios and and things like that? Ie where you want a single list that lets you design a force containing basically anything you want, and still with a theme and points values? |
Author: | wargame_insomniac [ Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
Looks even more complicated than last list. Whereas most people are hoping for less complex. Any list with more than 5 types of titan weapons categories is, for me personally, too much choice. Regards James |
Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Blarg's Divisio Militaris Army List v1.1 |
(Blarg D Impaler @ Dec. 22 2007,07:20) QUOTE Wow, and the horse I rode in on, huh? No, not at all. My post was intended to express exasperation, not to be nasty. You're just interested in something that a lot of people aren't. That's not personal. It's not a comment that your ideas are not valid or won't work. It's just different tastes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being divergent. Go. Anyone who criticizes you for playing the way you want should be roundly ignored. It's just a game. Like L4's mantra, DWWFY. Have fun. That said, your stated goal was to sell your list as the basis for future development. In that case, you're definitely not allowed to just do what you want. You're stuck with following certain strictures, one of which is popular acceptance. If you can sell you concept and gain that acceptance, fine, but there are substantial factors working against you. Any "real" development (by which I mean anything with even a vague, longshot hope of every gaining wide acceptance, let alone official blessing from SG) is stuck with the decisions of the 40K design shop. While we all complain about the shifting winds of background fiction and the poor choices of certain revisions, it is the driving force of the 40K-verse canon. Besides, a lot of the changes are good and make perfect sense. Regarding the complexity, pretty much anyone who takes the time to post on the boards can handle your system. The question is whether anyone wants to. In order for people to want to do it, there has to be a reward for their effort. For most people, the same quality of game experience can be had with a fraction of that detail, so unless the players have an affinity for minutia, the extra granularity adds little. Basically, the detail adds "on paper" feel. On paper feel may impact the game experience that but it is a minor consideration compared to the actual game play. It's only worth so much effort and the system requires more effort than most people think is worth it. The play is the thing. === If you really want specific suggestions on how to make the list more appealing to a broad audience, there are many suggesions in the last thread. Just off the top of my head: Cut the weapon categories (3 sizes, auxiliary systems, "double" weapons) Cut the weapon variety (too much duplication of similar roles) Cut the Knights down (0-1 cascading requirements means huge variety in the list produces minimal variety in fielded armies) Cut the variety of tanks, SHT, and infantry (again, many duplications of similar roles) |
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