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"For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
semajnollissor
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:06 pm 
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Okay, I was perusing E&C's AM tech guard list, and one thing kept bothering me: the abundance of all the low-tech IG vehicles.

I realize that the tech guard in the past was simply IG in different colors (I really don't know how Tech guard differed from IG, I just know they shared the same cards). But, must the Tech Guard stay that way? Here are my arguments for allowing AM list access to the more high tech items traditionally limited to SM lists.

The rhino:
I'm not sure why they'd want it, but I figure the Tech Guard has as much right to this as any Imperial force. After all, Sisters of Battle use them too, as did the squats before their demise. Also, I don't think there is an outright ban on their use by other Imperial forces, its just that Rhinos suck.

The Land Raider:
By decree of the Emperor himself, the Land Raider is to be used only by his glorious Space Marines. Except, of course, when Inquisitors need one (or three, or 20...). So, I guess that means the AM can't field them. Well, not so fast. I mean, you don't expect the AM to just deliver such an important vehicle without thoroughly testing it, including the necessary live fire exercises, do you? And, if those exercises happen to be in a real warzone, all the better. I mean, how could the AM claim to stand by their vehicles, if they didn't actually stand by their vehicles?

The Land Speeder:
These high tech wonders are only given to the most important of Imperial defenders, so that should include AM forces, too, right? The AM might not use these in the same type of roles as the SMs do, but surely they could find a use for them. And we know they used them at one time; that carapace landing pad wasn't for visiting dignitaries, you know.

Drop Pods, Thunderhawks, and Landing Craft:
Does the AM ever need to create their own planetary beachheads? Maybe not, but I bet they could if they wanted to. Maybe they shouldn't get exact copies of thes iconic SM craft, but Shark assault boats, landing craft variants, and drop-podded skitarii shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Just I little food for thought. I realize that opening up this equipment could easily lead to min/maxing abuse, but I think that if things are chosen carefully and constrained in their availability, then the list will avoid the min/max problems and be okay in the end.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:14 pm 
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The rhino:


Why use them, when Chimeras are superior?

Their only advantage is in being airmobile... something the AM are not renowned for.

The Land Raider:

As you say, they're for use by Astartes only... perhaps as part of a scenario the AM might use them, but not as part of their regular ORBAT.

The Land Speeder:

IIRC anti-grav tech is pretty much banned for military use by any non-Astartes.

Drop Pods, Thunderhawks, and Landing Craft:

I could see them using Landing Craft or analogous craft at any rate, in order to deliver war engines to the surface of planets... but they would very rarely deliver them directly into combat in that manner... the AM have never been portrayed as the masters of the skies, heck it's only recently that they were given some 'official' space ships that actually had guns on them! (Previous armed Ad-Mech ships had been pure conjecture).

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Ilushia
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:41 am 
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Ad-Mech should get a landing craft which allows for the transport of Ordinatii. They have to get them to the surface of a planet somehow, after all!  :devil:
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:46 am 
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New unit:

Ad Mech Battleship with Exterminatus Bomb - 2000pts

2000 Barrage Points, Titan-Killer 6D6, ignores cover.

May activate twice per turn, all game long...

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Markconz
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:08 am 
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I think the ignore cover makes it overpowered.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:33 am 
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*snickers* In seriousness, though, I think that Landspeeders would fit the Ad Mech. They're fast, good transportation, and can be used to scout. Plus there's background for them being used alongside Titans at the least. Not the same stats as Marines. I'd move them to 5+ save from 4+, to represent that since their pilots don't have power armor they're more susceptable to being killed then marines are (Unless you want them to always be run by Tech Priests or something!)
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ortron
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:31 am 
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I think i could easily see speaders being used. But then i imagine it would be easy for them to have Rhinos and LR. Old fluff would be fine but new fluff would be negative towards it.
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Chroma
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:52 am 
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(ortron @ Nov. 18 2007,03:31)
QUOTE
it would be easy for them to have Rhinos

Why would anyone, if one had the option, take a Rhino over a Chimera? ?It seems a technological step backwards! ?*laugh*

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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:18 am 
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I used to advocate that the AM be allowed to use SM stuff also, especially when you look at the old background material and formations.  Apparently, though, the background info has changed and the SM make their own equipment.

Just as well, we can make the AM do just fine with IG stuff and the occassional large WE.

If you really want to throw in some fancy stuff then I suggest we look to using the idea of the Divisio Investigatus (the Research and Development arm of the AM) to create very limited numbers of vehicles that possess unusual abilities.  What if the AM (titan legions or tech guard) were allowed to take one formation of Leman Russ that had the "Skimmer" special ability added?  How about a single Baneblade that had the "Walker" ability added to it?  (Imagine a Baneblade with 4 big spider-like legs carrying it instead of treads.)  Maybe a formationd of fire support infantry with Jump Packs?  These formations would represent the R&D guys field testing their experiments to see if they work.  Not only would it throw some abilities into the AM that they could utilize, it would also provide some excellent kit-bashing and modelling opportunities.

Now, before anyone goes off on this, this is not my idea.  The Divisio Investigatus came from the background material, and the idea of Leman Russ walkers was thrown out there in a Fanatic(?) magazine when some of the Leman Russ variants for WH40K first had their stats put out.  Something like a Leman Russ Xi...?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Apparently, though, the background info has changed and the SM make their own equipment.


Some Space Marine Chapters make their own equipment, some have supply agreements with Forgeworlds.


Interesting ideas on the R&D Divisio.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:51 pm 
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I think of all the things I mentioned in my initial post, Land Speeders are the items most deserving inclusion in the list. As upgrades to Valkyrie/storm trooper formations, they would fit like a glove.
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Pariah Press
 Post subject: "For Space Marine Use Only" items in AM lists
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:17 am 
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I think that Rhinos and Land Raiders are inappropriate.  Any other SM vehicles would be fine, including Land Speeders.  One of my Warlord Titans has a landing pade for a Land Speeder, after all!

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