Let's see what you come up with. Most of those are critical either to theme or internal balance.

Note that if you adopt a conditional pricing scheme for D you can actually internally balance it, rather than only costing it for the best combos, and then it doesn't need killing.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

As far as I see it (a simple by-stander in this discussion), Vaaish has been tasked with creating a Skitarii list for the NetEA community and not for a specific supplement.
If the 2 ideologies can coincide - great!
If not...

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

Vaaish accepted the championship with the mission that he'd develop a/the skitarii list for the supplement, preferably within 6 months of taking up the post.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

EC, that actually never came up as a specific requirement. If steve will forgive me, I've posted the relevant excerpts from the PM when I was asked if I would be interested in the position:

- direct stewardship of the Skitarii list and overseeing its testing+development towards Approved status
- liasing with supplement developers

Specifically finishing the Skitarii list for the supplement wasn't listed. That doesn't mean I'm shoving you out in the cold, I'm doing what I can to fulfill first part while working with you on the second part.

_________________
-Vaaish

Aye, Steve may have been oblique, but I repeatedly said in public and in pm that I was stepping down but relying on my replacement so to finish a/the list for the supplement, preferably within six months.

You even said in PM when you accepted the post, unasked for, thst you would step down as AC if I asked you to (the inference being rather obvious there). It's rather selective semantics to say that you have the ACship without that charge - if you'd once have said that you weren't going to work on the list for the supplement in the pre-handover PMs (when I mentioned it and asked you to get the/a list done for it) its obvious that you wouldn't be AC right now.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

As I said, I'm doing what I can to work with you on this but the situation isn't JUST about you and the supplement. I do still have a responsibility to deliver a list for approved status as well as one the rest of the community wants to play. I'm hoping to get the large review post done today.

_________________
-Vaaish

As far as I am aware, AC's are appointed for core list development. Suppliments are a nice by-product of this development, and absolutely should be encouraged. However, a suppliment list is difficult to justify without a core list, since a suppliment list is often a specialist variant, adhering to a scenario/background.

Wouldn't it make more sense to develop two lists in tandem, sharing unit stats, one for core NetEA development and specialist variant for the suppliment?

_________________
https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

I think part of the sticking point is that the list under development is called the Skitarii PDF and EC disagrees with the core list being named that since it doesn't fit his definition of a PDF as he's using it in his supplement.

_________________
-Vaaish

Well I viewed the names Skitarii PDF (and also Armoured Division for that matter) to be just working titles as we developed the list- nothing stopping us changing the names now that we actually have a clearer idea of how many AM lists we want and what each AM list is actually intended to represent.

That is the main good thing to have come out of this thread- at least we should have more tightly focussed list development and playtesting going forward.

Cheers

James

_________________
My TOEG- Blood Angels and Deathbolts
My Painting Blog- Evil Sunz, Goffs
My Epic trades list

My sticking point is rather more complex than that as I'm sure you're aware.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Well, there is nothing to say that the two lists are not developed as:
- Armoured Hammer Skitarii PDF; Vaaish's current stream for core NetEA development
- Pandoras World Assault Skitarii PDF; E&C's more specialised stream for the suppliment
Both would share the unit stats as much as possible, and both get specific title/descriptors.

_________________
https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

If I end up having to develop the PDF list it makes a daftness of having stepped down in the first place.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

E&C, I think the lesson is if you want complete creative control over something, don't pass it off to someone else. I know how much time a kid takes, and I understand and respect you'd want to make more time to be with her. But by now you should understand that people have different concepts of where any list should go. If you wanted this for the supplement in a certain form, you should have remained responsible, even if that meant giving the AC-ship to Vaaish and retaining the subAC-ship.

Without knowing what's going on in email or PM, it seems like Vaaish is trying to accomodate your vision beside his own. That's as good as you'll get without being personally responsible for development. If you work with him on this you can make a suitable list appear faster than simply butting heads. You've put a lot of good work into these lists and have a personal investment in seeing them succeed. Let them do so. Simply being antagonistic won't speed development or make people more amenable to the ideas you have.

Just my take, but I think you have the opportunity to choose to continue to be a positive influence on these lists, and wish to see that happen again. Right now the tone of these threads is driving people away; I know there's a part of me that cares less and less about making this work the more pages of bickering I have to read. Take a more positive tone and things may go better for you and for the list.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Why are both called PDF? The Skitarii are more than a PDF force, so the deployed force Vaaish envisions wouldn't be called a PDF.

More generally, I think the NetERC needs to take a stand on the Core/No core issue. It's fundamental to how a list is designed, after all - start with one big list and then specialize, or start with a couple of smaller lists and then add more to taste.

With hindsight, it was a huge mistake for me to have stepped down as AC. Foolish and stupid. It has perhaps needlessly yet irrecoverably harmed the supplement.

I should have listened to everyone, including Vaaish, who said I should stay on.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter