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Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)

 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:50 am 
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Onyx wrote:
A NetEA supplement would be best served by presenting the core titan list first and foremost.

For what it is worth, this is my point of view.

I concur.

Though to throw a left field suggestion in - rather than having the supplement mainly feature one titan list, with the other relegated to the appendix, could the supplement actually feature both lists in the main text? - a combined campaign where both the War Gryphons and Legio Destructor titan legions fight. It would make the scale of the conflict even more epic and both lists could be included more side-to-side as valid choices. The background could refer to the different forge world / titan schools following different patterns and construction rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:55 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
wargame_insomniac wrote:
So the question is-will EUK accept the Legio Destructor list? If not, then it will have been pointless. If so, then it will have been worthwhile and we will have got a commonly accepted AMTL list. My worry is that we go ahead and plump for the restricted list and then EUK still don't accept it.

I'm getting some positive noises so far.
If EUK end up rejecting it, then things as regards the supplement will probably change.

Hi- positive noises are great. I hope that EUK come through.

If you can get EUK to approve the Legio Destructor list then it will be worthwhile as we will have an AMTL list that can be used in tournament play and thus should be universally accepted. Which will be a big plus for me.

If EUK don't approve the Legio Destructor list then we may as well stick with the Net EA approved War Griffons list.

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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:59 am 
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GlynG wrote:
Though to throw a left field suggestion in - rather than having the supplement mainly feature one titan list, with the other relegated to the appendix, could the supplement actually feature both lists in the main text? - a combined campaign where both the War Gryphons and Legio Destructor titan legions fight. It would make the scale of the conflict even more epic and both lists could be included more side-to-side as valid choices. The background could refer to the different forge world / titan schools following different patterns and construction rules.


I have thought of approaching it this way, with the story having a War Gryphonnes detachment sent to help in the war.

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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
If a list is being relegated to the back of the book, it is being suggested that that list is not as good as the list in the front of the book

Yes, that's correct.

I don't think the War Gryphonnes list can be as balanced as a list based on a more restrictive weapons selection set. That makes the former not as good as the latter IMO.

I personally also like the modern configuration rules, and think that having a variant list on those lines is a cool thing. I'm all for having as many variant lists as is humanly possible

Quote:
Have EUK appointed you to be their Titan list designer? (honest question)

They've indicated they're interested in a collaboration, in the same manner as the NetEA Tau list also became the EUK Tau list.

I had already begun work on the Legio Destructor list before they mentioned the possibility to me, incidentally, because I already knew that there were some things I could do to make the AMTL list more balanced (And more tactically interesting, too) if I was writing a "Director's cut" list.

Quote:
why are you editing a fun/balanced (moreso with the new VP changes), succesful NetEA list to hopefully suit their needs? In the past, EUK has done it's own thing to suit it's own wishes. This isn't wrong at all. It just means you may be wasting your time.

It's my time to waste.

I'm quite aware that EUK could reject my list variant or make their own list in the end, etc, leaving me with egg on my face.

Stuff like that happens all the time to me, I'm used to looking silly.

Quote:
Really, it will be much simpler to dedicate the supplement to either EUK or NetEA. trying to please both sets of players could diminish the end product by making it confusing to follow.

I can only hope that I can manage to write the supplement in a clearly deliniated manner, then.

I'm all for having as many variant lists as possible. But this is based on the assumption that we have a set of universally accepted core lists. Thus for SM/IG/Ork we can have many variant chapter/regiment/warband lists but we have the the three core lists in EA rulebook.

The AMTL does nt yet have a universally accepted core list. If EUK accept the Legio Destructor list then it would be so. If EUK don't accept it, then the core AMTL list must be the Net EA approved War Griffons list.

The AMTL is comparatively a niche army. Let's not confuse people by fragmenting the AMTL lists unless absolutely necessary. Let's get one universally accepted core AMTL list before we start introducing variant AMTL lists.

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James


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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
Guys, could you please stop heaping abuse on somebody that's actually putting in a lot of work on a NetEA project? This is not the way to get a good Titan list, it's the way to kill the entire NetEA project.

Nobody's in it for the money here, so the tolerance for bullshit will be a lot lower.

I agree- if we want to see a supplement featuring AMTL then we need to be supportive. Otherwise the work won't get done.

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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:24 pm 
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wargame_insomniac wrote:
I'm all for having as many variant lists as possible. But this is based on the assumption that we have a set of universally accepted core lists. Thus for SM/IG/Ork we can have many variant chapter/regiment/warband lists but we have the the three core lists in EA rulebook.


Core lists are an abomination. It leads to stuff like all IG regiments turning into mechanized infantry and all Eldar overloading on aspect warriors.


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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:30 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
GlynG wrote:
Though to throw a left field suggestion in - rather than having the supplement mainly feature one titan list, with the other relegated to the appendix, could the supplement actually feature both lists in the main text? - a combined campaign where both the War Gryphons and Legio Destructor titan legions fight. It would make the scale of the conflict even more epic and both lists could be included more side-to-side as valid choices. The background could refer to the different forge world / titan schools following different patterns and construction rules.


I have thought of approaching it this way, with the story having a War Gryphonnes detachment sent to help in the war.

That's an interesting idea. Maybe having the two lists representing the differing fighting styles of the 2 Legios?

We know that Legio Destructor have spent a lot of time fighting Orks and Chaos. In the official GW background we know that they have fitted sonic amplifiers to their Titans to broadcast their battle-cry. Maybe they use more close combat weaponry than other Legios? That could explain their more restricted weapon choices?

(Although if that was case then it might be appropriate for Legio Detsructor to retain use of Laser Burners).

That way we can get a restricted AMTL list that is EUK approved and the current Net EA approved list with equal prominence in the supplement. Everyone will be happy and we can get all get united behind E&C's efforts.

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James


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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:40 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
wargame_insomniac wrote:
I'm all for having as many variant lists as possible. But this is based on the assumption that we have a set of universally accepted core lists. Thus for SM/IG/Ork we can have many variant chapter/regiment/warband lists but we have the the three core lists in EA rulebook.


Core lists are an abomination. It leads to stuff like all IG regiments turning into mechanized infantry and all Eldar overloading on aspect warriors.

Well I agree that Biel-Tann craftworld was nt the best choice for one official Eldar list. But not all IG armies are mechanized. I tend to go that way as i like tanks and with my poor eyesight I struggled to paint 6mm infantry. But I have regularly faced footsloging IG units and i have found them to be very effective.

I think it is important to have at least one universally accepted AMTL list. My friend Dean is my regular opponent for W40k and LOTR and an occasional EA opponent. He views the EUK lists as the closest to official lists. If I was to turn up with a Net EA approved list then that would mean nothing to him. If I was to play him with an AMTL list that was EUK approved then i would have no problems.

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James


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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Quote:
If GW or FW are going to see the supplement the Destructor list does have its merits

Hah, no comment.

As to EUK, if they're interested then it'll be cool, if not then it's only my time that's been wasted. I think there's a chance they will be, and think a supplement like this can be used to build bridges instead of put up more walls that drive the gulf between EUK-afficionados and the rest of the Epic-playing world ever wider.

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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:35 pm 
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wargame_insomniac wrote:
Ulrik wrote:
Core lists are an abomination. It leads to stuff like all IG regiments turning into mechanized infantry and all Eldar overloading on aspect warriors.

Well I agree that Biel-Tann craftworld was nt the best choice for one official Eldar list. But not all IG armies are mechanized. I tend to go that way as i like tanks and with my poor eyesight I struggled to paint 6mm infantry. But I have regularly faced footsloging IG units and i have found them to be very effective.

The Steel Legion isn’t truly universal / generic because it forces the command hq (which a IG player really needs) to be mechanised – if you want to field a force purely of infantry then you’re out of luck.

wargame_insomniac wrote:
I think it is important to have at least one universally accepted AMTL list. My friend Dean is my regular opponent for W40k and LOTR and an occasional EA opponent. He views the EUK lists as the closest to official lists. If I was to turn up with a Net EA approved list then that would mean nothing to him. If I was to play him with an AMTL list that was EUK approved then i would have no problems.

For better and worse there just isn’t one universally accepted set of lists these days – things vary depending on geography and player group. I've lived all my life in the UK but I’ll be in Australia next year and if I turn up with an Epic-UK list there then that wouldn’t mean anything to a lot of the players there either, whereas the Net-EA ATML would be commonly accepted.


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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Well if you go with GlynG's suggestion of 2 lists then your time will not be wasted and everybody will be happy. That can mean you can save your energies for the significant effort to actually write the supplement. Will only add 1 page to the supplement.

And building bridges between 2 fragments of epic community is a good thing.

Thanks

James


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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:15 pm 
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Quote:
NetEA supplements

It's worth mentioning that this has never been a stated aim of mine when developing supplements.

I just want to produce supplements which include the best possible quality of lists that I/we can manage. The provenance of lists (NetEA, EUK, even F-ERC) is largely unimportant to me.



Quote:
I don't think EUK would want to be percieved as influencing NetEA supplements

They ain't.

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 Post subject: Re: Legio Destructor Preview (Cut-down Supplement list)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:03 pm 
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If it's a variant list, what is it going to do besides restricting options further?

Variant lists historically have added some new possibilities in exchange for their restrictions. So what will be the new possibilities or quirks of the Legio Destructor?

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