Fair enough. The Warmonger may need to go up in points a tad at some point.


I've read pretty much everything Titan-related, including "Titan", "Titanicus", "Mechanicum", and far too many ££'s of Imperial Armour books. :-)

The way I see it, if you want a pure Adeptus Mechanicus Titan Legion list, your allies should be highly restricted.

In part, this is because in those various books the allies beneath the Titans' feet are often depicted as somewhat of a faceless sea of bodies, just a living carpet that the Titans stomp around on.

So yeah, you can get "Forge Knights" as allies, but you can't get the full range of Knights.
Likewise, you can get Skitarii, but you can't get Skitarii in Gorgons, or Chimeras... so as to provide that "sea of infantry" feel.

Too many support options, and the list starts to be "The PDF list, but better" rather than a different style of list altogether... the emphasis should be on those Titans!

So, I feel that even the minor addition of having harmless Rhinos would change the emphasis of the list too much, allowing you to use Skitarii offensively (Currently they are only defensive garrisons, or offensive when used in a Corvus Pod).

Now, finding a way to make the Corvus Assault Pods work properly, that I'd be very happy with. :-)

Maybe a slight points drop for AMTL Skitarii wouldn't go amiss, in addition?

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The Corvus Pod should give First Strike to any transported unit which assaults from it.

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OK you will have to bear with me on this one as it is a bit left field but what about having Skitarii bought as a support option work almost as is but not have them doubly restricted by needing an assault pod.

The have an assault pod cost around 50-100 points or something and include Skitarii but they are a part of the parent titans formation. They could then be used in the roll that they seem to in the books of an anti infantry screen and that would reduce the need for sentinels to fill that roll?

As I said it is in the early stages but there could be something worth looking at...

Kris

Emperor Class Titans, Titans as core choices, entire armies made of Titans instead of only 33%, Supreme Commander titans.



........

If we had to do transports for Skitarii, I'd rather they be Chimeras than Rhinos. Rhinos are light/airmobile vehicles for elite forces, not a battlefield taxi.

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I would disagree with this. Having the sentinels provides the only thing with the scout rule to keep teleport troops from popping in to beat on your battle titans. They also provide cheap garrison detachments that can force enemies to deal with them before taking on your titans. With the God Machines rule, you really don't want people beating on a battle titan, especially reavers so as to avoid granting an enemy BTS (already hard NOT have happen with IG). It's a combination of factors that makes sentinels good. Not as good as a warhound, but much better than the other available support choices because of the scout rule and how cheap they are. The next best thing is thunderbolts which, with the support restrictions, hurts you more to take them since they are an activation that can't hold ground making it easier for the enemy to deny you objectives and because the CML is more flexible with the available points to get the BM on assault troops.

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-Vaaish

How about removing the Sentinels and leaving only the Skitarii as screening units?

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I wouldn't much mind things then. Would give skitarii a place and put the support options relatively in line with each other. I'm still unconvinced that the forge knights are worth 400 points though or that the God machines rule is really necessary since it seems to help armies that would have no difficulty with BTS while doing nothing for armies that have trouble taking down a battle titan. I'm all for adding flavor, but I don't see this really doing that in it's current form.

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-Vaaish

I don't see a problem with Sentinels either. In my experience, they usually die pretty quickly.




I support the idea of being able to take Skitarii independent of the Corvus Assault Pod or Head.

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to my mind, sentinels perform two fairly vital roles in the AMTL list

first is Scout screens. teleporting terminators in particular, can do a good job of messing up very expensive titans, screening with sentinels allows you to blast them away with your titans firefight, not to mention keep your void shields. without them, titans tend to pop quite easily

secondly, is Activations. a titan list is obviously likely to run with very low activation levels, making them easy to outmaneuver, and very vulnerable to certain tactics and armies. sentinels do not overcome this completely, but do provide a valuable buffer to allow a little more control over what activates when.

those two things combine to make 2-3 sets of sentinels a virtual autoinclude in the list.

this does not mean that we should restrict access to the sentinels, or reduce their effectiveness or value. what it means, is we need to increase the attractiveness of the other support choices, so that there is an incentive to take them aswell/instead

reducing cost on things that seem to be overcosted (forge knights and skitarii+pods) and increasing availability on other things (dropping the pod restriction on skitarii, allowing skitarri to be bought for pods without using up support formations, increasing the number of (nonsentinel) support formations) will go a long way towards fixing that.

if you also dropped the availability of Warhounds (the other competition, and apparently the big "spam-threat") you solve it's inherent problems, while not greatly increasing the activation count on a titan list.

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I've been looking over everything in the PDF again and here are my thoughts on the titan list.

Support section: There is a pretty large divide in pricing. You have cheap with sentinels and thunderbolts but few slots to take either. Past that you have almost everything being more expensive and of dubious benefit than a single warhound which you have quite a few free slots to take. The only middling choices are orbital support or marauders neither of which is all that attractive.

The most expensive choice is the Forge Knights clocking in a 100 points under a warhound pack. With more support options this could get you a sentinel detachment and the knights for the same price which provides some nice synergy though I'm still unconvinced that it's worth the same as a warhound pack with their shields, fearless, and speed. I like forge knights and I keep trying to use them but they are very fragile. With 30cm weapons, shooting places them in range for retaliatory engagements where they are susceptible to clipping. Infiltrator plus the extra attack lets them engage on their own terms which makes them alright in assault. Once broken, which isn't hard to do once they engage, they fall apart.

Skitarii are also an option I would like to take, though I didn't see them as requiring an assault pod. I thought the tag next to them meant one detachment could fit in each pod, not that you had to take a pod to get them. Again, they are more expensive that warhounds and I'm not sure they will really do much better, though I think they'd be harder to shift if you wanted to play defensively. Putting them in pods could be fun.

That leave Sentinels and Tbolts as the economical choice to use for the limited support slots. With CML being cheaper and not requiring one of the slots, you can take two sentinels and two CML for the same price as two tbolts giving you both territory holding activations and hard to suppress AA to get BM on air assaults or maybe pop enemy fighters. This makes Sentinels the best choice with the support slots you have since it gives you the most options for the least points.

I think some of this could be solved by giving you two support slots and one scout. That still gets you between 4-5 warhounds if you take packs and gives you the option to take a pack and a single under most situations. I think bumping up the cost of sentinels to 150 might help since it puts them at the same points as tbolts. This should help make tbolts more attractive than sentinels and CML since it bumps the effective cost of the sentinel/cml combo to 200 points. For the rest, perhaps skitarii could some how end up around 250 (I think it's already been discussed that they are overpriced in the skitarii list anyway) and forge knights around 300. Not sure what it would take to do that. In any event most support would be under the price of a warhound single and the fewer slots available to scout titans should also help make more of the support options viable choices.

The last thing is the god machines rule. I really don't like it. Doesn't add flavor, and makes playing titans annoying since you can assume most armies will get get BTS. If you want flavor, I still think a BM on all AMTL formations would get the idea of the morale loss from the loss of a battle titan across. It's a concept already used by the Eldar avatar.

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-Vaaish