I'll try to get you the troop pics this week. been a bit crazy.

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-Vaaish

Right, before I spend a dull eternity figuring out what happened during the games and what to write along with each picture (I sincerely hope Zombos game has a way of auto recording this so batreps become automatic ) these are a couple of conclusions.

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General Plumer, 191x

Hi Chris

I disagree with you on charging points for Titan CCW. In the first few games I played against Colin's IG I went for strict WYSIWYG and took Reaver Titans with CCW. After several games we both felt they had nt done enough. The contrast with my artillery Reaver (with 3 MRL's) was marked- Colin felt it was much more effective because of the 3 shooting weapon.

When I switched to non-WYSIWYG and took Reavers with 3 shooting weapons they seemed to be far more effective. They did far more damage and gave Colin far more to worry about.

I guess against a more CC-orientated army, such as Chaos, then the Titan CCW would be more useful.

I guess that's the point of playtesting- multiple games against multiple opponents to ensure that evenly balanced.

Cheers

James

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I can see this from both of your viewpoints. A Titan with more weapons is more effective at killing things because it has more opportunity to use it's entire arsenal. However the Laser Burner and CCW are great ways of deterring players from attacking a BTS titan because of the bonuses they grant. In a situation where there is a good bit of TK weapons on the field the CCW or Laser burner isn't really worth it because it won't often be used as enemy players just avoid getting into an engagement with the Titan however against armies like marines where there isn't TK weapons and not that many MW shooting either, the CCW and LB are worth their weight in gold by effectivly forcing them to shoot through the void shields or get pasted in CC.

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-Vaaish

aight ill mail you tonorrow or thursday with those

A titan being used for shooting is only half its potential. Fully shielded titans are fantastic in assault.
Further I'm looking at exploiting Epics 'Horde of WE' flaw, that is too many WE's at certain points levels overwealm epics army lists. At the very least they massively affect the metagame in that the amount of hardware required to counter it is considerable.
I'm using cheap Reavers (575 points) and trying to have them be mutually supporting. If I pull it off which isn't that hard I'm getting 16 FF3+ attacks on offence, ignoring the first 4 hits on my shields and generally causing chaos. On defence I'm getting 10 CC3+ and if I survive another 8 FF3+ in support.
You are right the CCW is a defensive measure, and one I am happy to sacrifice a 'free' weapon for. I got to use it maybe twice in the those last three games. But I am happy to carry that handicap on the BTS to protect it.

If the CCW/LB isn't worth it yet, give it another attack or something so it is. It has no effect on 'firepower' Titan armies but does affect the 'WE horde' assault force.

Alternatively see my completed list of ideas below

Assault weapons
I don't think these should be free. It just seems to make to much sense to stick one on each titan. A CCW for your BTS to stop pesky CC'ers from having an easy time and a las burna on each of the others (reason expanded more above).

Given AP weaponry is 'free' the TLD is worth more than the other 25 point weapons, that is if I'm going the free route the TLD is the obvious choice to back it up.

Reavers - far and away better than warlords for an 'overwealm' style army as they have the movement. At 575 seemingly too cheap I think. I would suggest either the forcing of points being 'wasted' on Warlords (moving reavers to a support slot and perhaps allowing 3 support per warlord) or somehow making them take at least one 25 point weapon giving them an effective base cost of 600, which makes a difference at 3000's.

After those games my horde currently is configured to be
625 King Reaver, TLD, TLD, CCW
600 Reaver, VMB, VMB, LB, CML
600 Reaver, Inf, Inf, LB, CML
500 Warhound pack, VMB, PBG, VMB, PBG
300 Suicide Warhound, PBG, PBG
275 Warhound, Inf, VMB
100 Sentinels

Things to try in the future - are warhound packs too easily suppressible to have 4 TLD for 650, trying other stuff instead of sentinels (either 4 reavers, or more guns or some other unit) and trying to get some thunderbolts so it becomes a serious force.

Oh guess should try the warhound horde again as well.
625 King Reaver, CCW, CML
600 Reaver, LB, CML
500 Warhound pack
500 Warhound pack
500 Warhound pack
275 Suicide hound, VMV, PBG

So any opponents for vassal? I'd love to play against my ork army if someone wants to try it. And AMTL games are an ok speed on Vassal

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I can't promise anything, but since my friend decided he probably can't play another game until after the 16th(!), I may have to give vassel a go.

Reavers - far and away better than warlords for an 'overwealm' style army as they have the movement. At 575 seemingly too cheap I think. I would suggest either the forcing of points being 'wasted' on Warlords (moving reavers to a support slot and perhaps allowing 3 support per warlord) or somehow making them take at least one 25 point weapon giving them an effective base cost of 600, which makes a difference at 3000's.

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-Vaaish

Yes bit its irritating to have to march the warlord turn 1 and its hard to keep alongside the las burner 'guard's'.

But yes its not a change I favour as it would essentially make every list feature 2 warlords and could be a bit dull as a result (1475 2 warlords, 1000 2 packs, warhound, thunderbolts, sentinels - maybe dropping thunderbolts for weapons - CML x 2, 3 TLD, plasma hound? Awfully hard to get anywhere with those warlords, still I could try it. Full list then with weapons instead of thunderbolts would be Warlord, CCW, 3xTLD, CML - Warlord, TLD, VMB, VMB, Las Burna, CML - Warhound pack, Inf, VMB, Inf, VMB - Warhound pack, VMB, PBG, VMB, PBG - Warhound, PBG, PBG - Sentinels.)

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Irritating, yes and as you say it makes the list predictable which I believe should be avoided. If you know your going to see X unit make X maneuver every time you play the list, it kind of makes it droll for both parties. I don't think forcing options is the way to fix the problem if it turns out to be an issue.

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-Vaaish

How much cover were you playing with Rug? I find 'jumping' between cover doesn't half cut down the hits. Did you go for firepower titans or assault ones or a mixture on the same chassis?
And was it exactly the same list? (Which would be an amusing example of a parrllel thought process )
So at all bored enough to want to try vassal?

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

On a different note could perhaps the laser blaster go to AT2+? Still can't really see why I wouldn't just get 2 TLd's apart from the obvious.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x