Nope, the Crusaders and Castellans had 1 Void Shield a piece in destartes' list. Not sure is E&C is going to move them both to knight shields but I did mention that there's the potential for a Paladin getting hit by say a 3TK Volcano Cannon hit and living while a Crusader or Castellan will just get fried.

Also, E&C, on the Rough Rider stats, any thoughts on putting in the old suggested stats from Neal's change docs?

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Squats 2019-10-17

Yeah, but we're talking about a 1 in 8 chance of the paladin surviving, whereas a 2TK hit will kill 3 in 4 paladins but never kill those Crusaders and Castellans.
That actually sounds right to me: In TL, the knight shields were more powerful but less reliable than void shields, IIRC.

The pricing on the Crusaders and Castellans makes more sense if they have the void shield too. I had 3 Crusaders in my game the other day, and they didn't amount to much. Void shields could have changed how that battle played out. (Me remembering to use the AP to hit for MW barrages definitely would have helped too)

It would be 1 out of 8 if it was a 4+ save for each point of TK damage, but it's one 4+ save for each TK hit.  So a Paladin survives half of the time in all instances when it's hit by a TK weapon.

Also, AP for MW barrages was rejected for the 2008 errata.  But if you're using just Neal's change docs more power to you.

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Squats 2019-10-17

Ah, that's true. But then, you can say the same about, for example, TK5-6 hits wiping out warhounds and giving paladins a chance to survive. It might be an argument for changing the knight shield (in fact, it sounds like a good one), but I don't think it's a good one against crusaders and castellans getting void shields.

As for the changed rules, I thought almost everyone was using them. When I first saw them and realised they fixed most of my problems, I adopted them straight away.

However, keep in mind the advantages of Void Shields over Knight Shields.

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I'm not following you with the Warhound example. 6 TK hits is going to wipe the void shields from the Warhounds and give them 1 DC of damage, not destroy them outright. Meanwhile an average of 3 Paladins would be going down. Also, Crusaders and Castelanns currently have void shields, there's just a typo in the list. I'm arguing replacing them with knight shields.

I use the 2008 Errata and FAQ in my games and depending on my opponent I'll use the NetEA changes. The Change Doc's I don't use anymore many because of some of the controversial stuff (MW barrage etc.). That's not to say I wouldn't use them if someone asked to though. I'm just happy to get a game in.

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Squats 2019-10-17

I meant individual warhounds, taking a single TK5 or TK6 hit, which would only hit one paladin. (or am I confusing the TK hit allocation rules?)

As for getting the knight shield, I would argue that the void shield makes Crusaders/Castellans more durable. They are more vulnerable than the paladins to multiple damage TK shots, sure, but apart from that the void shields give protection that the knight shield does not, and they regenerate.

That said, I should actually play with them having void shields a few times before I expect my opinion to be taken very seriously

Take what I said with a pinch of salt, and we'll see if I feel the same way after a few games.

A single TK(5) hit would nuke a Warhound yes and leave a Knight standing half the time, yes. That begs the question though, who's firing a TK(5) at the poor paladin.

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Squats 2019-10-17

Agreed. It's a waste of firepower, given a choice of targets.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

On a related note, on turn two of the following game my Nova cannon melted a great gargant, on turn 3 it killed 3 stands of grots ;-)

I played another game with my list from the tournament toady VS orks, winning 2-0 on the fourth. The ordinatus once again proved very effective in breaking a stompa mob and slasha gargant on turn one then destroying a great gargant on turn two (once its shields had been taken off by a lot of firepower from some paladins and a mighty assault from the baron which took five points of damage off). Nova cannon also destroyed a routed boyz mob with a battle fortress that could have rallied and contested the enemies baseline objective, which the swift lancers and errants held in the end and the destroyed great gargant was his largest formation.

As posted before, here's the army list  

(450) Knights Paladin + Baron
(450) Knights Paladin + Paladin
(450) Knights Lancer + Errant
(150) Serf Trebuchet
(150) Aspirants
(150) Aspirants
(150) Thunderbolt squadron
(550) Ordinatus Majoris (Armageddon)

//2500 points

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For TK hits wit ha random damage roll, you dont spread the damage between war engines in a formation right? that would be silly. say you got a tk6 on a warhound pack, you wouldnt carry the extra point of damage over to the other machine.

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There's probably some FAQ entries on this but here are some examples for packs of two Warhounds:

5 TK(1) hits - 3 on the closest, 2 on the next
1 TK(5) hit - it goes on the closest
1 TK(4) hit and 1 TK(1) hit - the TK(4) on the closest, the TK(1) on the next
2 TK(2) hits, 1 TK(1) hit - the 2 TK(2) on the closets, the TK(1) on the next

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Squats 2019-10-17

Dave is correct.

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The rest made sense to me. This one I am less sure. Why would it not be:
1 TK(2) on the closest, 1 TK(2) on the next, and then finally 1 TK(1) on the closest again.

Cheers

James

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Hits are allocated on the closest unit until the point it has received damage equal to its DC. Thus if a warhound has received a TK 2 hit, it must receive another hit before the next closest warhound receives anything.

My understanding is that for ranged fire, the attacker chooses the order so in the example the TK 1 hit could be given to the first warhound and a TK 2 hit could thus be put on the second warhound.

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