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AMTL v3.11

 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:28 am 
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the forgeknight is not only useful from a model availability perspective- its also thematically better in my view.

The "knights" that people want to see have a well defined concept.  they are from semi-industrial, agri worlds with associated noble lineages etc (something I personally dont care for, but YMMV).  Incorporating that, plus justifications for their presence, into the AMTL list dilutes both thematically.  

As i see it the forgeknights are not "knights" in the strict sense, the only "knightly" thing about them is that they are a man in a big armoured suit.  They manipulate the fires of the forge, pulling huge beams of adamantium from its flames and directly constructing the many warmachines of the emperor.  When required they will come to the defences of the forgeworld- perhaps even be retrofitted and sent to aid in offworld campaigns. Perhaps they were the origins of the agri world knights, but they are a rather different beast.  

A generic profile is useful as, similar to the orks warmachines, a huge variety of configurations exist.  However these things are not generic "knights" they are something quite specifically different.  While people may use existing models to proxy these constructs- im planning something weirder.





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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:23 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 11 2008,17:53)
QUOTE

(widgren @ Jun. 11 2008,20:51)
QUOTE
i want to see knights and robots in the list. in what list can i field my robots?

'Praetorian Combat Servitors' is basically the new name for Robots.

I didn't know that. I thought they were cyborgs.

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:24 pm 
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I didn't know that. I thought they were cyborgs.


Technically, yes, but they fill the same basic military role in an Ad-Mech army as the old Robots.

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:31 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 12 2008,09:24)
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I didn't know that. I thought they were cyborgs.


Technically, yes, but they fill the same basic military role in an Ad-Mech army as the old Robots.

I thought so, but at least I can use my Robots for proxies. That's good news for me!  :)

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:29 pm 
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Just out of curiosity, what changes can we expect to see for v3.12?

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Just typo corrections so far ; I've not had enough feedback either way to drive the list in any particular direction.

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:58 pm 
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Arrrggg!!! :angry:

I know I'm late and have not been active for quite some time, but the new list (new=newer than v2 for me) totally screws up my army. Because a Warhpund pack does no longer count as Titan Formation, I have too much support formatins now! They are not all build and painted yet (50% ready), but all unfinished minis are prepared. :(  :(

Another problem is that I made the Titans WYSIWYG and with  detachable parts (magnets). But now the Reaver can have a Legate but has no hard point for a second flag (represnts Titan with Legate in my army). And don't get me started on the changes with the Skitarii unit...

Ok, I stop rambling now. Let's just say that the changes caused a lot of work for me, requires to buy more units and also leaves units unused that are finished.

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:04 am 
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Because a Warhpund pack does no longer count as Titan Formation, I have too much support formatins now!


Unfortunately, Warhound Packs as a Core formation was very broken, resulting in an incredibly powerful army list.

now the Reaver can have a Legate but has no hard point for a second flag (represnts Titan with Legate in my army).

Perhaps your Titan Legion doesn't have any Reaver Legates. :)

Let's just say that the changes caused a lot of work for me, requires to buy more units and also leaves units unused that are finished.

As I said in the other 3.11 thread, you may want to try the Skitarii PDF army list on for size, as it is actually a closer spiritual successor to the V2 (All-in-one) army list than the V3 AMTL army list.

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:11 am 
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(redsimon @ Jun. 18 2008,20:58)
QUOTE
Ok, I stop rambling now. Let's just say that the changes caused a lot of work for me, requires to buy more units and also leaves units unused that are finished.

Oh no sounds like we're turning into GW...  :p

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:10 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Jun. 19 2008,12:11)
QUOTE

(redsimon @ Jun. 18 2008,20:58)
QUOTE
Ok, I stop rambling now. Let's just say that the changes caused a lot of work for me, requires to buy more units and also leaves units unused that are finished.

Oh no sounds like we're turning into GW...  :p

You kinda did. :laugh:

BTW I will post a list with all typos and mistakes I can spot in the list soon.

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:14 pm 
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Here we go:

AMTL v3.11 review

Page 1:
1.) Emperor Titan not 0-1?
2.) Orbital Support: It should say ?One AM Cruiser OR One AM Battleship?.
3.) Upgrade list: It's ?Ordinati?.
4.) Upgrade list: Is the Sacred Icon or are the Carapace Multilasers ?Battle Titans only?? On page 2 it?s the other way round as on page 1.
5.) Upgrade list: The fire arc of the Multilasers is missing (or is it all round?).
6.) Upgrade list: All lists on that page say ?points?, just this says ?pts?. On page 2 they all say ?pts?. Make a decision.
7.) Costing Note: The first sentence should say ?pts?, not ?pt?.

Page 2:
1.) Second line: ?Ordinati? again.
2.) Carapace Landing Pad: Shouldn?t it be ?(Carapace only)??
3.) Corvus Assault Pod: Shouldn?t it be ?(Arm only)??
4.) Laser Burner: The ?OR? should be in the range column.
5.) Warheads: How does WYSIWYG work with these? Can I just convert a missile and use it with a different warhead in every game, or does it have to be a particular one, that looks simlar to those that were available back in time (or in case of Deathstrike, like the missile of the DML)?
6.) Upgrade list: It should say ?Battle Titans and Ordinati Upgrades? just like on page 1 to avoid confusion.
7.) Upgrade list: Mistakes like on page 1.

Page 3:
1.) Ordinatus Minoris Company: It should say ?Ordinati? as there is more than one. Also it should say ?select [?] from War Gryphons army list? like in the line below.
2.) Ordinatus Majoris: It should say ?or from the Ordinatus Weapon list? to avoid confusion.
3.) Cataphract Tank Company: It should say ?Cataphractes?, that is the name of that particular divison.
4.) Super-Heavy Tank Company: It should say ?Cataphractes Super-Heavy Tank Company?.
5.) Artillery: It should say ?Ballisterai?, that is the name of the artillery division.
6.) Deathstrike Missile Battery: Should be removed as every Ordinatus type can choose Deathstrike Missiles and those are more AM-like while DML is more Guard-like.
7.) Tech-Lord: Should be 0-1, I hope it?s a typo.
8.) Titan Legion Battlegroups: Should have the restriction ?no Legate? or better ?no Legates?, or again you could have more than one Supreme Commander.

Unit profile pages:
These units from the rules book are missing and not mentioned :
Leman Russ, LR Demolisher, LR Vanquisher, Hellhound, Hydra, Chimera, Basilisk, Bombard, Manticore, Deathstrike ML (should be removed anyway, see page 3 comment 6), Sentinel, Baneblade, Shadowsword, Thunderbolt, Marauder.
These units from other sources should have their profiles added to the pdf-file (or you would have to search for them to be able to use the list):
Rapier Laser Destroyer, Stormblade, Stormsword.

Page 6:
1.) Ordinati: Both types have the fire arcs missing for their secondary armament.

Page 7:
1.) Reaver Titan: The notes don?t say clear enough that he can only have 2 Arm and 1 Carapace weapon.

Page 8:
1.) Warlord Titan: The notes don?t say clear enough that he can only have 2 Arm and 2 Carapace weapons.

Page 9:
1.) Warmonger: It should say ?8 Doomstrike Missiles?. Vengeance Cannon should be Titan Kller (3) or (D6), or it would not stand out as the ultimate anti-war-engine-weapon that it is (Defence Laser already has TK (D3).
2.) Imperator: It should say ?Defence Laser?, not ?Defense Laser?

Page 11:
1.) Fire Control Centre is missing in the list. Should be like the one from the Warmonger.
2.) List should have a ?count as? column like in v2, so that you can see which weapon it would be in a Tournament Game (unless player tells the opponent it counts as something else of course).

Pages 12-14:
Same mistakes like pages 1-3.

Page 15:
Probably also some mistakes spilled over from the profiles here.





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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:03 pm 
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Some additional things:

Marauder Squadron:
Is it on purpose that it is cheaper (in both lists) than in the Steel Legion list? And why did the Marauders replace the Marauder Destroyers?

Costing Note: Warhound Weapn Systems: What if you buy two Turbolaser Destructors for a Warhound? Is it 50 points or 75 points more expensive due to that rule?

Corvus Assault Pod: Currently it is only useful if you also choose a Skitarii Demi-Century. It should have a secondary function so that you can use a Titan equipped with it when not fielding the Skitarii.

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:48 pm 
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Page 1:
1.) Emperor Titan not 0-1?


Nope ; What if someone wants to run an Legio Sinister themed force! :D


2.) Orbital Support: It should say ?One AM Cruiser OR One AM Battleship?.

Aye
3.) Upgrade list: It's ?Ordinati?.

The Latinate ae is applicable since it is multiple variants of the same basic class. Should be the single-letter ? come to think of it.

Feel free to correct me if my GCSE Latin classes put me in error. :)

4.) Upgrade list: Is the Sacred Icon or are the Carapace Multilasers ?Battle Titans only?? On page 2 it?s the other way round as on page 1.

Multilasers are Battle class only.

5.) Upgrade list: The fire arc of the Multilasers is missing (or is it all round?).
It is.

6.) Upgrade list: All lists on that page say ?points?, just this says ?pts?. On page 2 they all say ?pts?. Make a decision.
Cheers.

PS: Don't be rude. :)

7.) Costing Note: The first sentence should say ?pts?, not ?pt?.

Syntactically, I think I'm correct... it depends on if you include an 'of' in the sentence.


Page 2:
1.) Second line: ?Ordinati? again.
Ordinat? again. :)

2.) Carapace Landing Pad: Shouldn?t it be ?(Carapace only)??
I left this one open to allow for arm-mounted radars or the like as proxies.

3.) Corvus Assault Pod: Shouldn?t it be ?(Arm only)??
As with the CLP, I didn't want to constrict scratchbuilders.

4.) Laser Burner: The ?OR? should be in the range column.
Aye.

5.) Warheads: How does WYSIWYG work with these? Can I just convert a missile and use it with a different warhead in every game, or does it have to be a particular one, that looks simlar to those that were available back in time (or in case of Deathstrike, like the missile of the DML)?

WYSIWYG is unnessesary for the warhead (Because specific models are hysterically rare).

Simply denote on your army list what type of missile warhead you've taken, and remember to tell your opponent during the 5-minute warmup phase, just like you'd tell him how many Space Marine Chaplains you'd have in your army, etc.


Page 3:
1.) Ordinatus Minoris Company: It should say ?Ordinati? as there is more than one. Also it should say ?select [?] from War Gryphons army list? like in the line below.

The correct form if they were all identical would be Ordinatii IIRC. However as there is the potential for different variants thus I've used ?.

Again correct me if I'm wrong on my Latin.

2.) Ordinatus Majoris: It should say ?or from the Ordinatus Weapon list? to avoid confusion.
Noted.

3.) Cataphract Tank Company: It should say ?Cataphractes?, that is the name of that particular divison.
In the Dark Apostle book?

4.) Super-Heavy Tank Company: It should say ?Cataphractes Super-Heavy Tank Company?.
Dark Apostle again?

5.) Artillery: It should say ?Ballisterai?, that is the name of the artillery division.
Dark Apostle?

It's good to quote sources, primary, secondary, tertiary, fan-fiction, etc. :)

6.) Deathstrike Missile Battery: Should be removed as every Ordinatus type can choose Deathstrike Missiles and those are more AM-like while DML is more Guard-like.

Interesting point!

7.) Tech-Lord: Should be 0-1, I hope it?s a typo.
It's a typo.

8.) Titan Legion Battlegroups: Should have the restriction ?no Legate? or better ?no Legates?, or again you could have more than one Supreme Commander.
Noted.

Unit profile pages:
These units from the rules book are missing and not mentioned :
Leman Russ, LR Demolisher, LR Vanquisher, Hellhound, Hydra, Chimera, Basilisk, Bombard, Manticore, Deathstrike ML (should be removed anyway, see page 3 comment 6), Sentinel, Baneblade, Shadowsword, Thunderbolt, Marauder.
Noted.

Page 6:
1.) Ordinati: Both types have the fire arcs missing for their secondary armament.
There is currently no fire arc on their secondary armament.

Page 7:
1.) Reaver Titan: The notes don?t say clear enough that he can only have 2 Arm and 1 Carapace weapon.
Noted.


Page 9:
1.) Warmonger: It should say ?8 Doomstrike Missiles?.
Noted.

Vengeance Cannon should be Titan Kller (3) or (D6), or it would not stand out as the ultimate anti-war-engine-weapon that it is (Defence Laser already has TK (D3).
I'm fine with TK3.

2.) Imperator: It should say ?Defence Laser?, not ?Defense Laser?
Aye.

Page 11:
1.) Fire Control Centre is missing in the list. Should be like the one from the Warmonger.
Yeah why not.

2.) List should have a ?count as? column like in v2, so that you can see which weapon it would be in a Tournament Game (unless player tells the opponent it counts as something else of course).
Yeah why not.



Thanks for your comprehensive list.

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 Post subject: AMTL v3.11
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:54 pm 
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(redsimon @ Jun. 22 2008,18:03)
QUOTE
Some additional things:

Marauder Squadron:
Is it on purpose that it is cheaper (in both lists) than in the Steel Legion list?

Yes.

Marauders are one of the worst-value units in the game, so a points break is definitely in order (And probably an upgrade too).

And why did the Marauders replace the Marauder Destroyers?

I'd love to ask why the Marauder Destroyers and Lightnings replaced the normal aircraft in the V2 list!

Changing the aircraft for different lists isn't nessesary to the gameplay, and if variant aircraft are wanted, I'm on record as saying that we should have an 'aircraft patch' that would allow variant aircraft to be selected for a variety of armies.

In concept, I'd like variant titans to be selectable for other army lists too, at some point.

Costing Note: Warhound Weapn Systems: What if you buy two Turbolaser Destructors for a Warhound? Is it 50 points or 75 points more expensive due to that rule?

The 25pt surcharge still applies, and it's still a worthwhile configuration IMHO.

Corvus Assault Pod: Currently it is only useful if you also choose a Skitarii Demi-Century. It should have a secondary function so that you can use a Titan equipped with it when not fielding the Skitarii.
Noted.

Note that the Pod is a piece of forward-thinking, laying a little groundwork for possible variant Titan availability to other armies in the future.

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