Majoris isn't actually where the major problems lie, so culling most of them is both nessesary and irrelevant.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Perhaps not entirely, but if the point is there are too many units to balance effectively, canning all the majoris options except the ordinatus weapons effectively drops the unit count to the mid-range based on your counts. That should mean that the added units and existing ones won't be as problematic.

_________________
-Vaaish

Or if you reduce the number of Majoris weapon options to maybe a third-half of the Titan weapons (plus all the exiting Ordinatii weapons) we can get a middle ground. Reduced number of options to make it easier to balance whilst still having a little variety.

Then all we need is a coule of tweaks elsewhere and that should help the list feel less bloated with nearer to average range number of unit choices.....

I don't think I;ve seen an army list that ended up with any of the majoris outside of the ordinatus weapons armed versions. If nobody is using them there's no reason to have the variety especially since the existing ordinatus weapons cover most of the variety you'd have anyway. Ensuring they are balanced would be effort expended for little return.

Better to focus that effort on the minorus and any other options to make the skitarii list as flavorful as possible while reducing the unit count to the levels of existing, balanced lists.

_________________
-Vaaish

I agree that it's important to focus the effort where it can do the most good, but I disagree on removing all the Majorus options and restricting them to just the Ordinatus weapons. While the Ordinatus weapons do cover a fair amount of ground, they don't cover all the useful options. I'm currently in the process of building a 2x Laser Blaster Majorus, as there are times that weight-of-fire is more important than the quality of that fire, such as when firing at large formations of low-armored vehicles. On the other hand, I don't know if there's a pressing need to restrict the Majorus' weapons, as they don't seem to be taken with much frequency.

What really needs fixing is the CLP+2x Quake Cannon formation. It shows up in every single list that was posted in the "post your list" thread, with the exception of one. There are two possible reasons for that: 1) it's too good and thus becomes an autoinclude, or 2) it fills a role in the list that nothing else does. In this specific case I think it's both of them. As the only artillery in a list that is very slow, artillery becomes a necessity, and the CLP/QC formation is the only way to get effective artillery. Would it be possible to look at an artillery variant for the Majorus, to allow for some variety?

Personally I have always disliked the CLP+Quake Cannon combination for AMTL lists. To me the Quake Cannon was never an artillery weapon but a direct fire ballistic weapon with a big shell, used for smashing apart bunkers and fortifications. I had always thought CLP was intended to be used with MRL.

Whenever I asked for advice on how to equip Warlords in AMTL list I invariably was advised to got for twin Quake Cannons and CLP. I questioned whether that combo should be restricted/prohibted. All the people who liked taking twin Quake Cannons and CLP on Warlords in AMTL list won that argument with simple weight of numbers.

It does nt surprise me that it would also be a near unanimous choice for Skitarii lists. If something is a near auto-include then it is either over-powered and/or undercosted.....

James

Here's my ratings on the artillery Ordinati:

Inferno gun, fine
Inferno gun + CLP, fine

AML, fine
AML + CLP, fine

Quake cannon, sub-par
Quake cannon + CLP, brilliant

Ordinatus Mars, fine
Ordinatus mars + CLP, broken overpowered nonsense


It's all down to the CLP, which has been (vaguely) balanced for use with the Titans, but is thrown out by the Ordinati which have different base stats and prices.


I've proposed one, Ordinatus Gehenna, which comes from the background.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=22748



I think the CLP is one of the biggest problems with the War Gryphonnes & Skitarii lists. It incentivises static gameplay, and in combination with a pair of Quakes provides more destructive firepower than an IG arty company, for a much cheaper price, or in the case of Ordinatus Mars provides insanely better firepower for a comparable price.

Oh, and both Ord Minoris and Ord Majoris Arty comes with free AA and much better survivability than an IG arty company.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

We could restrict the CLP to conceivably indirect weapons (AML only, most likely), and add the Praetorian (and eventually Dominatus) as Artillery units. That would take the pressure off the CLP to provide Artillery, and restrict it's ability to do so to weapons that could become Arty in the first place.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

The list with the most units does not need more units.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Fine. Just restrict the effectiveness of the CLP. Instead of CLP + 2 Quake autoinclude, you'll get a CLP + 2AML autoinclude. I can't see how that solves the problem. The only way to make the formations optional will be to have options.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

As long as the CLP stays , the supposedly iconic support missiles will remain extinct. CLP configs are better, and cheaper.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I know for myself, the Support Missiles biggest problem is their one-shot nature. Would it be horrendously inbalancing to give them Slow-Firing instead? (I know this could be interpreted as having an effect on IG Deathstrikes, but I'm not proposing changing them, just the Skitarii ones)

The CLP could be adjusted easily for Skitarii by limiting the effectiveness only to the unit it's on rather than all of the units in the detachment. I also feel that the reason the thing is an auto include is that it provides relatively safe support for any unit on the map with proper placement. Improvements to minorus speed can help make direct fire variants more useful by providing better close range support. I dare say a minorus company with three plasma cannons or three laser blasters can provide far better support for a formation than the clp+quake minorus, but part of the problem is keeping them in a position they CAN support.




This really isn't a good reason to not restrict the majoris. The pressing need for restriction is to reduce the unit count. You either do this by canning minorus varients or majoris variants and at this point the majoris provides the least destructive means. So the majoris looses out on battle titan weapons. TBH, if you really want those 2x laser blasters, take a Reaver.

_________________
-Vaaish

Vaiish you are proposing effectively removing the CLP minorus with that wording?

Plasma cannons are not equal to an indirect firing MW template under anything other than truly perfect circumstances.

I just converted a twin plasma destructor majoris.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Basically. it effectively kills the issue. I'm sad at the thought of losing my CLP minorus, but, alternatively, adding a nice surcharge for sending out the targeting info to other units in the detachment should make the 2x quake and CLP less desirable combined with the speed boost for the minorus and have no effect on the titans list.

_________________
-Vaaish