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AMTL 3.15

 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:26 pm 
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sounds as odd as Powerfist on Carapace.


If it were allowed I do a carapace power fist and two inferno cannons to make a true trogdor pattern reaver.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:27 pm 
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Ok technically ruleswiese there where never restrictions where to place a weapon (just looked up TitanLegions rulebook). A 4 Wrecker Ball Warlord was a possibility for instance if looking somewhat odd  :laugh:

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Quote: (Vaaish @ 24 Jul. 2009, 16:13 )

I'd be annoyed at this change simply because I just got my legion built and it would make for some serious changes. I'd rather see all battle titan class weapons have a cost first than place limits on what goes where. It would also make the standard pattern Reaver impossible to build with the apoc launcher being battle class and therefore impossible to place on the carapace and the TLD being scout class and impossible to place on the arms.

Rest assured that instituting the modern weapon limits will not be my first recourse if balance concerns re-emerge.

But I would rather see those configuration limits instituted than accept TRC's proposal of returning to an AMTL v2 analogue where most of the weapons have to (alledgedly) cost the same (which leads to a bland list that is not internally balanced).




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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Quote: (Vaaish @ 24 Jul. 2009, 16:26 )

sounds as odd as Powerfist on Carapace.


If it were allowed I do a carapace power fist and two inferno cannons to make a true trogdor pattern reaver.

Nothing is actually stopping you doing that, as 'counts-as' covers a carapace weapon 'counting as' a power fist, and vice-versa.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:49 pm 
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Quote: (Vaaish @ 24 Jul. 2009, 16:13 )

If my friend is willing, I can attempt to try this out vs marines maybe next week. There are a lot of WE in there though but I think it's beatable with a few good air assaults and terminator deployment. Even land Raiders should be able to pick away at them. Reaver two will be blitz guard and reaver one will move up to provide support.

I find with few activations (and no support config) there is no point having a blitz guard. Its a mobile spearhead group. When a warhound breaks send it back to cover the blitz but keep those Reavers moving up - they are the core!

And infernos and landing pad seems a pretty poor option. I'll post in a bit what I would use. Certainly I would massively cut down on PBG's unless you plan to be assaulting a lot turn 2.

I'd be annoyed at this change simply because I just got my legion built and it would make for some serious changes. I'd rather see all battle titan class weapons have a cost first than place limits on what goes where. It would also make the standard pattern Reaver impossible to build with the apoc launcher being battle class and therefore impossible to place on the carapace and the TLD being scout class and impossible to place on the arms.


Maybe have two lists, legacy and new :)

Thats a good point actually, how does the MRL fit into things now in the brave new world of apocalypse E&C?

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Maybe have two lists, legacy and new :)

This list is intended to provide both in one, as you can build either old style or modern style Titans with it.

Splitting up the list into 'legacy' and 'modern' is an option I've considered, but rejected at this time.

Thats a good point actually, how does the MRL fit into things now in the brave new world of apocalypse E&C?
Under the modern configuration rules, the MRL is a carapace weapon.

The only serious bombardment weapon available to the arms is the Quake Cannon.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:03 pm 
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I find with few activations (and no support config) there is no point having a blitz guard. Its a mobile spearhead group. When a warhound breaks send it back to cover the blitz but keep those Reavers moving up - they are the core!

And infernos and landing pad seems a pretty poor option. I'll post in a bit what I would use. Certainly I would massively cut down on PBG's unless you plan to be assaulting a lot turn 2.


I know my friend, he has a habit of dropping terminators down on blitz's without guards. This will hopefully disuade him from doing that. He might still do it because it's the BTS but it should hurt him pretty badly.

Infernos plus pad give me 6bp, 60cm indirect fire, ignores cover, plus the sustain bonus equals out to something like AP3+/AT4+ and two templates. It's a combo I've been wanting to try out and works with the free weapons.

PBG have to be there or you have to take Inferno + VMB/PBG to fit within the 3k point value using the options you suggested because of the surcharge on two of the same weapon on warhounds and the cost of the TLD. If you ask me, I'd rather have the PBG's for the MW punch than the inferno cannons and it leaves the warhounds without a good way to deal with reinforced armor or AV at all.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 24 Jul. 2009, 16:41 )

But I would rather see those configuration limits instituted than accept TRC's proposal of returning to an AMTL v2 analogue where most of the weapons have to (alledgedly) cost the same (which leads to a bland list that is not internally balanced).

Oh I wouldn't want a mis mash of the two styles (2nd and 3rd), I'd prefer one or the other. Or both in two different lists :)

Further I can't see it how it changes much anyway. You would still get the problem of imbalance, but now between the free arm weapons and the 25 point ones (so CC weapon and TLD for instance).

A better solution if things are skewed is to have only Warlords as core units with maybe 3 support slots - that puts a break on things.

Quote: (Vaaish @ 24 Jul. 2009, 17:03 )

[I know my friend, he has a habit of dropping terminators down on blitz's without guards. This will hopefully disuade him from doing that. He might still do it because it's the BTS but it should hurt him pretty badly.

I would hope he would - a reaver with a lasburner beats terminators 9 times out of 10 - you take shield hits, he takes casualties (8 3+ attack = 1 dead terminator - 4 3+ = 3 downed shields).

Infernos plus pad give me 6bp, 60cm indirect fire, ignores cover, plus the sustain bonus equals out to something like AP3+/AT4+ and two templates. It's a combo I've been wanting to try out and works with the free weapons.


Its a static combo. These sorts of WE lists only work if you ram it down the enemies throat. Two VMB give better to hits on infantry with the same AT if you advance/sustain as the infernos.

PBG have to be there or you have to take Inferno + VMB/PBG to fit within the 3k point value using the options you suggested because of the surcharge on two of the same weapon on warhounds and the cost of the TLD. If you ask me, I'd rather have the PBG's for the MW punch than the inferno cannons and it leaves the warhounds without a good way to deal with reinforced armor or AV at all.

You deal with AVs with assaults.

If you can fire up vassel I will happily demonstrate an aggressive WE horde :)

Incidentally I would be thinking for the warhound list or something like

625 Reaver - CCW, TLD, VMB (or inferno, not sure) - BTS, the CCW stops terminators jumping it
600 Reaver - CML, Las Burner, 2xPBG - Has to assault turn 2, he is the main guy that goes in and secures those objectives you placed in the correct position during set up
500 Pack - VMB/PBG x2
500 Pack - VMB/Inferno x2 (maybe VMB/PBG, not sure without playing)
500 Pack - VMB/Inferno x2
275 Suicide hound - VMB, PBG - I attack Deathstrikes

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 24 Jul. 2009, 16:53 )

Under the modern configuration rules, the MRL is a carapace weapon.

So the 3 MRL reaver made by FW until recently is impossible?

(Who is betting if FW make a titan game those MRLs will be allowed on arms again!)




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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:33 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 24 Jul. 2009, 18:18 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 24 Jul. 2009, 16:53 )

Under the modern configuration rules, the MRL is a carapace weapon.

So the 3 MRL reaver made by FW until recently is impossible?

(Who is betting if FW make a titan game those MRLs will be allowed on arms again!)

Correct.

I'd bet not, since the Titan game would be based around a new range of truescale models.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 24 Jul. 2009, 18:16 )

Its a static combo. These sorts of WE lists only work if you ram it down the enemies throat. Two VMB give better to hits on infantry with the same AT if you advance/sustain as the infernos.

The way I've seen this combo used is doubling turn 1 and 2 (depending on enemy placement) and only actually sustaining in turn 3 as necessary... negating cover saves being of great benefit against infantry.

The extra Template and extra Blast marker being the "icing" as you try to clip formations near your target.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:55 pm 
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Should the carapace landing pad really be allowed to work with the inferno cannons? How does knowing that there is an enemy behind the hill allow it to double the range of the flamejets?

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:01 pm 
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maybe tilting the flame jet up and arcing it over the top?

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 24 Jul. 2009, 13:55 )

Should the carapace landing pad really be allowed to work with the inferno cannons? How does knowing that there is an enemy behind the hill allow it to double the range of the flamejets?

I was wondering that,too. It's perfectly legal as the rule is written, but I don't see why a flamer weapon wouldn't have an absolute maximum range.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.15
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:08 pm 
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The Flame Template didn't allow such unlogical things  :whistle:




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