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Titan Variants
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:32 am 
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2. Support Configuration = 670

C - Multiple Rocket Launcher
A - Multiple Rocket Launcher
A - Multiple Rocket Launcher
H - Fire Control Head


That should be 770.

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CAL001
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:17 am 
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I changed your fire control head value to 100, it is useless once the titan moves so I think 200 is way to much.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:38 am 
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You may find that an indirect firing 9BP Reaver (Deployed on the blitzkrieg, bombing the far reaches of the board with 120cm range and never moving, naturally), is too cheap at 670 points.

I may be wrong, the indirect Head upgrade has had little testing, and it was one of the few items that I had to invent a cost for basically from scratch.

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CAL001
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:00 pm 
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If you look at the Titan as is now, it cost more than an Imperial Guard Arty company. It delivers the same amount of firepower but at a reduced range to the Guard Arty, is a little more robust so I think it works for now, only playtesting will see. And by chance I have a FW all MRL Titan painted up to use in the campaign. I will let you know how it goes.

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CAL
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:12 pm 
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Yeah, it's a *little* more robust than an artillery company... slightly harder to reduce in capability / break too. :)

Good luck in the campaign!

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:19 pm 
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(CAL001 @ Oct. 03 2006,13:00)
QUOTE
If you look at the Titan as is now, it cost more than an Imperial Guard Arty company. It delivers the same amount of firepower but at a reduced range to the Guard Arty, is a little more robust so I think it works for now, only playtesting will see. And by chance I have a FW all MRL Titan painted up to use in the campaign. I will let you know how it goes.

Cheers
CAL

E&C is correct.  That will almost certainly be too cheap.

It has less range but still enough to hit most of the board so the difference is nominal.

It is dramatically more robust.  It cannot be suppressed at all.  It does not suffer from degrading firepower due to damage.  It has regenerating void shields.  It takes many times the amount of firepower to kill it.  It's better in assaults than the arty.  The sole way in which it might be worse is vulnerability to multi-TK weapons but since few of those are made to use against arty that remains out of LoS, that's mitigated to a certain extent as well.

Compare normal methods of dealing with an arty company to dealing with a Reaver titan and you will easily see how much more powerful it is.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:27 pm 
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2. Support Configuration = 875

C - Multiple Rocket Launcher
C - Multiple Rocket Launcher
A - Quake Cannon
A - Gatling Blaster
H - Fire Control Head


Your barrage loses MW status when the MRL's are added to the Quake Cannon, possibly not the greatest configuration.




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CAL001
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:39 pm 
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Yeah, I was trying to avoid the 3 quake cannons everyone was worried about. It all depends how you use it. And looking at your list, what else would you put on it? or take off it?

Neal

What then would you say is the cost of the fire control head. E&C had it at 200, I think that is far to much. Not all BF are 120 in lenght/width and if the titan moves its only good to 60. I know what you are saying about robustness though. 720 may be the way to go. I will test and provide feedback.

What I do want to know from the crowd is a list to go firm on and test. Do we go for the one by BL, E&C or mine? If you want to get this one up and running we need to move fast on a list of titan configurations and test them for points and usefulness.

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CAL
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:44 pm 
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My list was only based on BL's one, just giving points.

That's the beauty of the Modular points list, it's able to build these variant configurations within a minute or two, and so far there's been very few complaints about their balance lol.

/end of shameless plug. :)


As far as picking a firm set of variants, I'd like to hope we could get the Hun, Goth, Vandal names etc back in some form.

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CAL001
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:52 pm 
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Like I said, no names yet, just weapon configurations. Names can be added any time getting a set of titans on the board and testing is the key to success.

CAL
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:36 pm 
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(CAL001 @ Oct. 03 2006,13:39)
QUOTE
Neal

What then would you say is the cost of the fire control head.

I don't think it's an issue of what the head costs versus what the weapons cost.

I think balanced modular point costs for BP weapons are very problematic.  The weapons' firepower does not scale linearly, so a linear point cost is most likely going to introduce an imbalance at one point or another.

Just as a swag, I'd say BP9/indirect fire on a reaver would be in the 750 point range and from there I'd still be more concerned about it being too powerful than too weak.

I'd also say this configuration would be especially useful for Marines.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:08 pm 
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I think the modular list's 770 points is likely to be closer to balanced than imbalanced, if you see what I mean. :)


Scaling is indeed a problem I ran into during the construction of the list. I went some way towards solving this by giving different points to the two Fire Control upgrades (The Pad and the Head), with the assumption that the Head would be used on a Titan with more BP weapons than a Titan with a Pad, thus the Head is significantly more expensive to compensate for the significant synergies a titan gains at high levels of BP.

So there's a two-level scale there that is intended to bring balance.




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ragnarok
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:35 pm 
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Crazy thought (I'm full of them at the moment :D ), what about having the cost of the carapace landing pad and fire control head dependant on the number of BP weapons on the titan?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:41 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Oct. 03 2006,22:35)
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Crazy thought (I'm full of them at the moment :D ), what about having the cost of the carapace landing pad and fire control head dependant on the number of BP weapons on the titan?

I considered that but decided against multi-scaling to account for synergies, because once you start down that path you'll find yourself doing that for every damn weapon in the list. :)

I suppose it could be done just for the two indirect upgrades, but I've a feeling that the current setup is good enough (Though slightly overpriced when you only have 1 indirect weapon).

But then again, if you've only got one rocket launcher and you're buying an indirect upgrade, generally you'll have your priorities wrong.

So yeah, the two indirect upgrades assume you'll be fitting several BP weapons, and I think they're a good enough solution, avoiding the need for scaling prices.

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-AL
 Post subject: Titan Variants
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:39 pm 
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Well, I think it might be a good idea to pick and choose from a number of Titan Weapon Configerations suggested by various members as need be.  I also think a little more time spent at the beggining discussing things could pay off more than just quickly choosing afew to test right away.

Certainly the two FW Reavers need to be tested first, since they have figs already.

I also think Head Weapons should generally be avoided as they are hard to come by, and are pressumably rare upgrades for Titans (especially ones that are to be lent out to other forces)

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