I think you're being a little extreme E&C.

I know you need a pdf force for the supplement, but the major difference between a Skittari Army on deployment and a forgeworld pdf force would be the use of defensive fortifications (and even then you'll have siegemaster equivs) and the use of dropships or other mobility+ elements when on the offensive.

A pdf is only defensive in that it doesn't leave the planet - it'll still need to attack enemy positions. Take Vaaish's current list. Add the critical infrastructure from speakertomachines, decide on the corvus assualt pod rules and you're done.

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I'm modeling the Skitarii "PDF" around the concept of the Ultramar Auxilia because the skitarii ARE an atypical PDF force. From the information we have there doesn't seem to be a distinction between a force that exists only to defend the forgeworld itself (similar to a traditional PDF) and a force that is sent out to defend AdMech interests in off world warzones (similar to IG regiments). Both are Skitarii or Tech Guard. There are Explorator forces, but those are a different kettle of fish. In the same way that the Ultramar Auxilia is a PDF, so are the Skitarii.

My intent is to develop and balance the list we currently have for Skitarii to represent them as best we can with the information available.

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-Vaaish

It's a huge pity that it won't be able to be put in the printed supplement, then, because this list doesn't represent a defensive force all that well. It's not bad at representing an army that deploys to a hostile planet to attack the enemy (less ordinatii, no defence lines or installations).

I mostly only stepped down as champion because I didn't have time to develop the PDF list myself, and now I find that I'm gonna have to develop the PDF list anyway. Great.


EDIT: or maybe S2M could develop his PDF list, since that one too has a defensive focus.

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That's really what I hope for - a balanced tournament-approved list that supports a variety of units, formations and playstyles.



By all means. I'll be tracking the core formations (Skitarii, Robots, Minorii etc) from the core list closely, and then adding Installations and fortifications. I may shuffle the formations between core and support to emphasize the defensive nature of the list.

Let me know if there's anything in particular you need, over here.

That sounds good on both points.

It will be great to get one balanced tournament-approved Skitarii list and then also good to get a couple of additional lists to further emphasize certain aspects e.g. defence and armoured.

Cheers

James

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Is it not easier to get a more focused list tournament ready? If you want a do-it-all list there are a lot of permutations to test before you know it's not broken.

Yes. I reckon you could get three or four more focused lists balanced in the time it'd take to balance the current list.

Heck, I doubt it's even possible to playtest all of the options available in the current list before you die of old age.

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only if you insist on counting each possible ordnati as a separate unit.
amd if they're balanced in the AMTL list, they should be balanced here.
They've not been an issue in play testing, have they?

I think you're being a bit unfair on Vaaish here E&C - you can't handover control and then still expect someone to do everything exactly as you tell them.
f you've got lots of stuff written for the supplement - post it as a draft. We can proofread for yah and it'll be clearer what things you NEED to be in the list for the story to work*. Otherwise Vaaish will be throwing darts blindfolded, with only you shouting for guidance.

*you know, like the draft armored skittari list mollified those people with nicely painted tanks who didn't want to loose them.

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I handed over the championship to Vaaish with the request that he finish the PDF list. He's now not going to make a PDF list. Reducing the focus on Ordinatii and saying the list is about an army going out and attacking other worlds does not make it a PDF list, it does the opposite.

I have a right to be miffed, because the one list I asked him to provide, he's not going to develop.


I have. Here's the main plot, cut out from the various army lists and datafaxes and unit descriptions etc.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21401

You'll note two clear types of Skitarii armies: The Skitarii PDF (with a lot of mentions of Ordinati, & defence walls & defence laser installations) and the Skitarii Armoured Regiments.

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I'm on page 33 and so far it's 3 mentions for Skittari infantry regiments, 5 for infantry/ordinati fighting (including one with a defense laser position), 5 for armoured regiments

EDIT: and while the curtain walls come up again and again, they feel almost more like a special scenario then a pick up game.

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All the infantry regiments in that book are PDF regiments. Certainly they're not Macharius & Russ Regiments.

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Also, you seem to have missed the six defence weapon emplacements around Port Alpha manned by Skitarii that get destroyed early in the story. They're a mixture of missile silos and defence lasers (described as "lances" in the plot because we're dealing with BFG units at the time).

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ahhh - yeah i discounted those as anti-spacecraft weaponry. another installation+infantry then?

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I figured it's 3 defence lasers and 3 missile silos (which are planetary defences in BFG... probably wouldn't factor into a game of Epic unless they were counted as Deathstrike Silos like the one in the Krieg list).

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Ok, enough. stop crying that I'm reducing the focus on Ordinatii in every AdMech thread when it's blatantly untrue. Reducing options does not reduce focus. Moving the Majoris to support does not reduce focus on ordinatus when it fits the background. You've said it yourself that there are too many options and you've even reduced the Majoris options by about 80% in your posted list and the minorus by at least 50%. You also brought up the issue with the CLP, moving the majoris fixes that without alienating the people using the list. Stop acting like titans are now the only "true" way to reduce options while you've done far more cuts to the Ordinatii than I have ever proposed.

Allowing people to use their titans as they are configured in the Titan List to support the Skitarii is critical to conveying the concept of a forgeworld's military capability because it allows for players to field both parts in support of each other without forcing them to have "different" configurations from what they want to use or have available. It ties both parts of the AMTL together. Leave the standard variations for non-mechanicus lists who get only what the AdMech send them.

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-Vaaish