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E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
vanvlak
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:27 pm 
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(Chroma @ Nov. 18 2007,13:56)
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(Steve54 @ Nov. 18 2007,07:55)
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Ordinatus Minoris - described as 3x the size of a Russ so 3DC, basically a tracked unit with a titan weapon mounted on it.

Now this is something I'd like to hear more about!

hear, hear  :cool:  :cool:

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:29 pm 
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I'd like to see Macharius hulls with more Warhound Class weapons (Like inferno guns and light rocket launchers) fitted!

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Steve54
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:46 am 
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I've found the book today so more BL Admech details-

Lead by Tech-Magos - multiple arms with heavy weapons +power axe, protected by shield and by techpriests with power halberds, commands from airship

tech guard/skitarii - heavily augmented more servitor than human. Armed with lasguns etc, no better in CC than IG

kataphractoi tracked skitarii/servitors with heavy weapons

Praetorians -servitors with heavy weapons - autocannons, multi meltas etc
heavily armored, CC drills, chainfists

Gorgons - transport for Praetorians

Centaurs - heavily armoured tracked servitors with heavy weapons

Hypaspists -servitors carrying 'power' shields - shielding skitarii

ordinatus minoris - crawlers, 3x the length of leman russ
'two wide track units, one at thefront and one at the rear, and between these was supported the mass of the war engine. Heavy girders and steel struts supported huge weapons'
Described as a way to mount battle titan weapons without having to construct a titan

ordinatus magentus- sonic disruptor weapon, have own AA systems, void shielded

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nealhunt
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:53 pm 
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(Steve54 @ Nov. 19 2007,09:46)
QUOTE
Lead by Tech-Magos
tech guard/skitarii
kataphractoi
Praetorians
Gorgons
Centaurs
Hypaspists
ordinatus minoris

I find myself excited by the prospects of this.  A list featuring decent infantry and SHTs (Ordinatus Minoris) would fill a hole in the current imperial force orgs.  SHT treadheads have been out of luck, basically since the game came out.  Every SHT list built from the Steel Legion list has been pummeled in every game I've seen.  I'm sure part of that was the Baneblade issue, but that's certainly not all of it.

I think E&C's list captures most of this already - Tech Magi, Skitarii (Hypasists included in stat line), Praetorians, obviously.  Gorgons and Centaurs have stats that were worked on for the Krieg list.

That just leaves:

Kataphractoi - Bike or heavy bike equivalents.  Should have decent FF and CC, with some ranged weapon and either LV or Mounted Inf.  Given that these will be conversion-only, I'd probably shoot for making them LV with relatively strong capabilities so people could reasonably build them to a fieldable size.  Something along the lines of the Destroyers in the Necron list would seem to be appropriate.

Ordinatus Minoris - Basically the same as any SHT/big weapon variant (shadowswords stormsword, stormblade, etc), so there is plenty of precedent to draw from.  You could probably just rip the shadowsword chassis stats and put appropriately themed weapon choice in place of the Volcano Cannon.  Something like:

Ordinatus Minoris
WE 4+ 6+ 5+
2x Heavy bolters
Volcano Cannon
Plasma Destructor
MRL
[or whatever weapons are appropriate to Gryphonne]
Notes: DC3, RA, choose one weapon, [TRA maybe?]
Crit: destroyed

===

If this idea had been out a month ago, I probably would have submitted a list to the competition.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:29 pm 
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LOL@ the names :)

skitarii = Schieldbearer. Correct would be Scutarii (plural) or Scutarius singular)
Kataphractoi = iterally meaning (very) "behind barriers", "behind a fence", "protected". Ancient heavy armoured eastern calvalry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kataphractoi
Praetorians = ancient roman bodyguard of the emperors.
Gorgons = mystical krature whos gaze turn people into stone.
Centaurs = mystical humans wich are from waist down a horse.
Hypaspists = Shieldbearer. Heavy ancient greek skirmishers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypaspists




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Steve54
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:42 pm 
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GW taking names from history and mythology?

I'm shocked  :p

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Mechanicus
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:52 pm 
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Which book is this? I thought Hypaspists were just Skitarii line troopers. And I hadn't heard about Cataphracts (that was how it was spelt in the original article) as being servitors; though they were hard-wired in to their tanks, being drivers. I presume this Magos would be a Magos Mandati, but that probably wasn't mentioned in the book.  :D

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Moscovian
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:07 pm 
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If you are interested in the Tunneler rules from the Demiurg, here they are:
SPECIAL RULES
Tunnellers
This special rule can be used for tunnellers if they are
included in a scenario. Tunnellers are set up on their own table edge before the battle starts, at the same time that spacecraft are deployed (see 4.0). Any units transported in the tunnellers are kept off table until they surface. Write down the location where the tunneller will surface in the same manner that you record the co-ordinates of a drop zone (see 4.3.3).
Each tunneller formation must pass an activation test and take a Sustained Fire Action. If successful the tunneller models are removed from the table. It takes a tunneller formation 1 full turn to travel to any point on your table half and 2 full turns to travel to any point in your opponents table half.
Set up the tunnellers at the start of the turn when they
surface as per the following rules for Breaching Charges.
The tunnellers and any units being transported may take an action on the turn they appear.
Breaching Charges
After the placing the first unit in a tunneller formation, its
Breaching Charges attack all enemy units within 15cm.
Each enemy formation attacked receives a Blast marker for coming under fire, and an extra Blast marker for each
casualty. Once this is resolved, center an orbital
bombardment template over the model and place any other tunnellers in the same formation within that 12cm area. The troops carried in the tunnellers then must disembark within 5cm of their transport.

Non-Combatant (Khthon Cradles)
This unit cannot claim an objective on the opponent?s table side and cannot thwart a They Shall Not Pass victory condition. Additionally, if it comes under fire its formation receives one additional Blast marker.
Note: Tunneling requires you to deploy and activate the formation from Khthon cradles which have their own profile and remain on the table as an independent formation even after the tunnellers launch. Tunnellers unlike drop pods remain on the table and form an independent formation even after the transported infantry disembark. Additionally, the breaching charges are a one-shot attack,
and its profile is the same regardless of the tunneller
formation?s composition. As per the detailed rules for
breaching charges, each formation gets only one 15cm
radius attack regardless of how many tunnellers are in the same formation.
Important Note on Targeting TBM: While a Tunnel
Boring Machine is mounted on its cradle they count as one unit. All shooting is considered to be directed at the TBM. Use the TBM armour save value when resolving allocated hits. If the save is failed remove the TBM and the cradle, but assign only 1 BM per casualty. On-board infantry units save as per the normal rules for a destroyed transport. Any BM accumulated prior to the launching of TBM formations remain on the cradles, stranded infantry will form up with the cradles but are bound by the cradle Non-Combatant rules. Any Fearless infantry units lose that ability if stranded.
Overwatch: Formations on Overwatch can declare attacks on disembarked infantry or TBM immediately after the Strategy Phase on the turn they surface.


ePilgrim's Tunneler rules are detailed.  We played them extensively and didn't have a problem with them.  With that said, re-reading them after having a break from the Demiurg I find them to be cumbersome.  I am sure they can be re-written to be easier.

Pro's include that the models are used.  The models appear on the board and remain on the board.  

Con's include a multiplying effect.  The tunnelers -if successfully launched- in essence split into three plus formations: the cradles, the tunnelers, and the formation(s) inside.  The cradles and the tunnelers have limited functions but they still have to be dealt with.  Of course you have a chance to shoot at them before they launch so there is a balancing factor.

I think a modified version of ePilgrim's rule could be worked out pretty well that was simpler while still retaining the balanced feel of both flexibility and vulnerability.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:22 pm 
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I'd still probably go with free planetfall to represent their tunneling ability. I know it doesn't use the cradles, but what function do the cradles actually have other then launching them and giving you another activation? I didn't get the feeling they had much in the way of weaponry other then for self defense, or moved particularly fast... For the actual units I'd go with Free Planetfall and Jump Packs to represent that any movement they had would actually be underground and thus uninhibited by surface-level terrain. You could re-name it, but just use those mechanics, as well. Maybe with the special rule: "Tunnelers may be removed from the board as per the Teleport special rules". To represent that they can burrow way under ground, far enough the opponent can't follow them, and stay there for the rest of the game.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:40 pm 
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Building on the 'build your own SHT' concept why not have E&C's 2dc tanks have the scout options, then have SHT with tactical titan weapons and SSHT (used by VVIP's) with the support weaponry.

Personally I feel I have a million 1st edition land raider hulls that would under the knife for this - indeed I remember one forum member came up with this a while back. Well its a it different but you get the idea.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:25 pm 
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(Mechanicus @ Nov. 19 2007,16:52)
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Which book is this? I thought Hypaspists were just Skitarii line troopers. And I hadn't heard about Cataphracts (that was how it was spelt in the original article) as being servitors; though they were hard-wired in to their tanks, being drivers. I presume this Magos would be a Magos Mandati, but that probably wasn't mentioned in the book. ?:D

I believe that Cataphracts with a c still refered to tanks in dark apostle (the book all these names came from) and Kataphractoi with a K refered to the heavy infanty.

I know that when Imade the pig latin names for all my nid units I found a Kataphractoi  with a K that meant some sort of elite heavy armour unit that went perfect with my 'stealers with extened carapace and scything talons.

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vanvlak
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:11 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Nov. 20 2007,20:40)
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Personally I feel I have a million 1st edition land raider hulls that would under the knife for this - indeed I remember one forum member came up with this a while back. Well its a it different but you get the idea.

Well that looks kinda familiar.....  :devil:

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Mechanicus
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:08 pm 
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I believe that Cataphracts with a c still refered to tanks in dark apostle (the book all these names came from) and Kataphractoi with a K refered to the heavy infanty.

I know that when Imade the pig latin names for all my nid units I found a Kataphractoi  with a K that meant some sort of elite heavy armour unit that went perfect with my 'stealers with extened carapace and scything talons.
Ah, Dark Apostle. I need to look at that, then... I had heard it had Mechanicus characters, but I couldn't get much more info than that. :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:26 pm 
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There are some very cool ideas here!

I'm going to be out of town for a week, but when I get back I'll try incorporating a few into a new version of this list...

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: E&C's Ad-Mech Tech Guard Concept.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:30 am 
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One point worth mentioning is that the Tech Guard in TL had better morale than regular IG (though not as good as space marines).  

 Re: the knights.  Are they appropriate for a defensively-oriented list?  Didn't the Knights join the Titan Legions when they were on crusade?  I love Knights as well as the next man (probably MORE than the next man, truth be told!) but I don't think they belong here.

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