Hi, My name's Sam,

I'm basically a new player, using AMTL for the last 2 and a bit months as my first army, first of all I appreciate the efforts that have gone into producing the list.

I'm attending a tournament this weekend here in Australia and im looking forward to seeing how the 5 shots PD goes, as I've recently started using this rule. Personally i run a triple Reaver list with a single warhound, 2 units of sentinels and a sqd of thunderbolts, my bts is a CC Reaver with melta cannon / ccw / laser burner.
the other two each have a single PD and Gatling blasters.
I have previously ran a double PD Reaver and since moved to my current configuration.

My success with the list, is heavily varied, I've perhaps played 20-25 games I've not had much luck when playing against someone who's a better player and generally lose quiet bad. Most armies don't find it all that hard to break / kill the 2 sentinel units to drop my activations, and either load my reavers up with Bm's to challenge activating or what's been more common is singling out a single Reaver and breaking it in a turn.
Against opponents with what i genuinely believe is an equal skill level ( a group of 4 of us got involved at the same time) I've probably managed a 60% win ratio against those guys. I haven't had a game where its been a walk in the park and the list has played and won it for me, at this stage its been far from that.

I agree with what has been said, the PD can be a pretty devastating wep. I also agree that the PD should be made only available for Carapace on Reavers and perhaps limit it to two per warlord.

I think limiting it to 5 shots is a step in the right direction. I'm also glad that we're taking it little by little until its seen as balanced, rather than massive changes one way and another to suit a minority.


As i become a better player and learn more I hope to contribute in some way with the list and its development.

Cheers,

Sam

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Great post fudd.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with the forum

Your list is a really great ans well balanced list ( for a 3 reaver build) and the cc reaver is devastating when applied correctly and not blown to hell.

Keep painting and posting man.

I don't think we'll need to go that far and I think doing that will mostly just remove the PD from general play since many folks tend toward reavers to get in more activations. Doing a carapace restriction would effectively limit reavers to 1 PD and Warlords to 2 PD which should be more than enough to tweak things if we find the shot reduction isn't enough.

_________________
-Vaaish

What was the status/situation on the crusaders replacing sentinels? I am too lazy to look that post up.

That sounds a very reasonable approach. Thanks Vaaish.

Hi Sam - I'm also coming to Cancon, see you there!



I'm familiar with your list, it's a good one.

It's too late for cancon, but I really strongly recommend that going forward you change which reaver you add Legate to. The problem I see is that you've made a tremendous Combat Reaver:

1. Reaver 800 + Legate, Carapace ML & Sacred Icon BTS
Laser Burner, Melta Cannon & CCW
- Laser Burner Extra Attacks (+2 FF or +4CC)
- Close Combat Weapon Base Contact Extra Attacks (+3), Titan Killer (d3)
- Melta Cannon 30cm mw2+, Titan Killer (d3) AND Extra Attacks (+1), Titan Killer (d6)
- Carapace Multi-Lasers 30cm 2x AP5+/AT6+/AA5+
- Sacred Icon - Inspiring

But to get proper use out of that unit against enemies that aren't going to conveniently teleport or air assault near it, it needs to go forward fast, which means it will be exposed. It's definitely formidable in assault but against enemies with decent shooting ability it's the most likely to be killed.

Unless where you play it is all thunderhawks and landas, I recommend simply giving the Legate upgrade to the longest ranged Reaver (in your case, Reaver 3: 775 + Vet Princeps, Plasma Destructor, Gatling Blaster x 2, Carapace Multilasers) and putting Veteran Princeps on this combat orientated one.
If you can also work out a way to adjust points so that the BTS isn't also the supreme commander that would be a bonus, but at a minimum not having both targets on the reaver most likely to be on the front line would be an improvement.

Looking forward to the EPIC weekend!

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your advice, I missed seeing these comments prior to CanCon.

I strongly agree that my BTS / Sup com shouldn't be the CC reaver. However prior to list submission i couldn't find a way around not having my BTS as my supreme commander, due to the weapons i selected over the 3 titans.
But at least moving sup com off the CC reaver will move closer in the right direction.
Thanks again for our game on Sunday rnd 3. Congratulations on the tournament win.
Hoping to see you at Castle Assault in August!

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Just curious, but I saw several titan lists at cancon and I'm curious what was taken and how they performed? Anyone want to share?

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-Vaaish

Vaaish, have you actually played against it with a non-RA infantry/AV army? It's completely un-fun to simply have to remove a third to a full formation's units with one weapon's shooting attack, let alone 2-3.

The shot reduction is not enough given the plethora of other high number shooting attack weapons this list packs. As the PD stands, I would trade a Volcano cannon for a PD on the basic Warlord in the allies section of the Marine list in a heart beat given the possibility of the miss effecting the number of damage I would do with a VC.

Standard action with AMTL titans at Cancon seemed to be hide in cover for the -1 to hit so any doubling titan was auto -2 to hit (4+ to hit on a single dice weapon), and given the basic Warlord has 60cm ranged weapons, it often has to double to bring all its weapons to bear on an AMTL Reaver for maximum effect, whereas the Reaver also has the benefit of faster movement and 75cm ranged weapons so can sit still and sustain in return....

The AMTL players at Cancon were thankfully very restrained using the AMTL lists - IIRC PDs were singular on almost all titans.

Dobbsy, 90% of my games are against Marines with a smattering of IG. So yes I've played a considerable number of games against non RA armies. Honestly, I think most folks would trade the volcano cannon on the standard warlord for just about any other weapon be it a laser blaster, PD, or another GB simply because it's more potential kills than the single shot on the volcano cannon against practically any target.

As I said, we have a plan and if the reduction to 5x shots isn't enough we will limit them to carapace only. That's going to limit Reavers to a single PD and warlords to two PD.

I'm curious to see what the results are from cancon because there were multiple titan armies present and I know you guys used 5x shots. I don't think you guys ended up swapping out the sentinels for the 150 point crusader robot formation though.

_________________
-Vaaish

Hi Vaaish,

So, my list seemed to be underrated by most as there was 3 titan lists at CanCon, a lot of people rated the other two lists over my list , prior to the event.... for the most part anyway, there were a few believers.
My list was the following:

1. Reaver 800
+ Legate, Carapace ML & Sacred Icon
Laser Burner, Melta Cannon & CCW

2. Reaver 750
+ Vet Princeps
Plasma Destructor, Gatling Blaster & Laser Blaster

3. Reaver 775
+ Vet Princeps & Carapace ML
Plasma Destructor, Gatling Blaster x 2

4. Warhound 325
+ Vet Princeps
Vulcan Megabolter & Turbo Laser Destructor

5. Recon Cohort 100

6. Recon Cohort 100

7. Thunderbolt Sqn 150


Round one:
I faced what was rated on WargamerAU as the top titan list / most feared.
it was a triple reaver list. 1 with double PD & laser blaster, 1 with laser blaster & 2 volcano cannons and 1 with double quake & landing pad, a warhound and 3 units of sentinels.
He got first round and his first salvo from the PD reaver broke one of my reavers leaving it on 1 wound and followed up with a similar result when he fired the volcanon cannons. I got very lucky with his d3 damage rolls only doing 2-3 points of damage a turn.
I managed to out manoeuvre and force him off his objectives & blitz with my CC reaver while also denying him crossing into my table half, i got up by 2 victory conditions but he got more victory points. still a win to me.
My thoughts after this game were pretty strong towards reavers not being able to take 2+ PD's or volcano cannons as it was simply devastating. I think i got lucky as the opponent i was playing was probably less experienced then myself, however had had a lot of advice prior to the event on dealing with the armies at the event as it was an open list event.

Round two was against Zac's space marines, very close game, I got lucky that he wasn't careful enough with his placement of units or didnt think ahead enough and got up by 1 VC and also on VP's

Round three was against Adam's steel legion. always a tough nut to crack, playing true line of sight on the table we did, sucked for hiding my titans from his shadowswords, who took great pleasure in carving up my CC reaver, scoring BTS right off the bat and 800vp plus deleting my sup com who i despritely needed several times in the game. however, once again i beleive i played quiet well and worked hard to achieve 1 VC and i was up by about 1000VP's because of his death or glory attempt with his bts russ squad.

I finished the day on 3 wins, however minor they were. had a big gosh darned steak and a decent sleep (in case that matters)

Day two begins with a rough match up, playing Jims scions of iron.
Last time i faced this double landing craft list it beat me in 15 odd minutes. At least i knew what was coming this time around and tried my hardest. My depolyment was key and i had a great plan but still fucked myself when i later remembered the key fact, that warengines block line of sight, As i had deployed all 3 reavers and warhound in a line touching each other so that i could claim supporting fire, should i survive the initial assault. Thankfully i did survive but it was to no benefit. I was kicking myself that i didnt stagger their deployment. From there shit when down hill super fast, i spent the rest of the game with 3 reavers and a warhound that refused to rally. Not even a re-roll helped. Had I rallied a couple of reavers, i strongly believe i could have won the game. so little by little my reavers were wiped out, Jim got up 5VC and 3k VP.

Due to scores being so close, i had to play Zac's marines for a second time.
This time around Zac had some bad luck here and there, I believe i had a strong deployment and objective placement for the table we were playing on. Terrain was in my favor and i believe i played smart cracking down his activations and concentrating on denying as many VC as possible.
I finished on 2VC and close to 2kVP.

this propelled me up the ladder to face off against Mr. Shadowlord.
Having never faced death korps I wasn't too sure what i was in for. I believe he deployed well and played well. not even my biggest guns could seem to scratch those damn gorgons. when my CC reaver made it to combat it was almost laughable, the gorgons soaked up the damage for the most part, as unfortunately as much as i would have liked to be in CC i fell short and was in firefight.
The only thing i really managed damage wise was killing a warhound. other then that he polished me off getting, i think it was 4VC and 2,000+VP

I finished the event coming 2nd in group B, which the way the tournament was set up, it was seeded for people who were new to tournaments only playing each other and the big boys who'd been to tournaments before playing each other and the only way someone form group A would fight group B was if a group B player won a lot of games, as was seen for me to make it up to play Jim and Matt.

Overall the event was fantastic, everyone i played was great and i look forward to returning next year.

My thoughts on the list, I'm strongly behind the PD being dropped to 5 shots but i also believe that at the same time rather then waiting the PD needs to be made carapace only.
I witnessed a double PD reaver advance up and shoot at a marine unit bts. the unit had 3 rhinos and a razorback, which the laser blaster lucked out and killed 3 rhinos, then opened up with 10 shots, inflicting 8 hits. that was the unit dead. perhaps luck and maybe placement of said bts was a factor but that's still devastating.

Hopefully this wasn't too unpleasant and arsed about to read.

Cheers

Sam.

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Hey Fudd, Thanks for replying! It's not an unpleasant read. The goal is to have a balanced fun list and we need these kinds of things to see how different groups play. I'd like to see how the other lists performed before jumping to carapace only, but the tournament setting is a good way to see what happens

To note on the double PD reaver you mentioned, I think the question is whether or not any other titan config would be capable of inflicting similar damage. Titans really need to be low activation count but able to inflic serious if not critical damage every time they fire or you've really got no options other than try to win on points.

Seeing that you had one PD per reaver, a list like yours would be akin to having the PD carapace only. What were you thoughts on how the list played with a single PD per reaver?

_________________
-Vaaish

G'day again Vaaish,

I agree with goals etc. i'm still thankful for the effort that goes in.

So, onto my opinion of the potential for having carapace only PD's vs as many as you want.... I thought i'd ask some of my opponents from the tournament for a no bull - S- review and their opinion not bias to my thoughts & feelings.

I'll share those later.
Personally, I believe while it may seem like a challenge at times, i also feel like less of a jerk. I do think having that one point and darn off gun per titan is needed. When the formation is costing upwards of 750pts you should expect it to cause a little havoc. However i need to note, games that have been easy I believe its because i've been the better player, my opponent has made a mistake whether its deployment, unit placement, objectives or theres always luck... believe it or not there is some skill involved in successfully running a titan legion, If my opponent doesn't realise how easy it is to drop my activations by taking out the two sentinel squads and then picking on a single reaver till its broken, they're probably going to suffer a bit.


From my mate Zac, A Space marine player who started epic with me, following over a dozen or so years of 40k/fantasy.



Zac is yet to organise an account, so that's why i've quoted him in this fashion.


Now onto Adam who ran Steel Legion and got an award for most improved player over the course of the tournament.


I've got another mate who i was unable to contact at this stage, but when i hear from him i'll return and post his opinion.

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From another friend, Sam - who is new to the forums, known as KooKooKrazy(?) i think.

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Thanks for the report Sam, it is always good to hear how people get on (Must do something for FSA befoe I forget.)

Quick question on this. The 8 further hits still took into consideration the infantry taking cover from the vehicles. All shooting simultaneous and all that.

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