I'd be fine with dropping BP all together. Historically Castellans and Crusaders didn't have barrage weapons.

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The mole mortar has .5BP in thr Squat list.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

I agree with this very much!

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Just got a game in over the weekend against the Codex Marine list. The knights are quite potent! Lost a group of lancers minus the baron on the first turn from a Lander assault. Subsequently devastated the marines in every engagement after. The Errants are particularly potent with 4 attacks each (provided they are in CC and initiate the engagement). They managed to stand up to a full tactical squad with 3 supporting formations, win the assault wipe them out. Was using two groups of Castellans and the shooting was actually surprisingly lackluster against the marine list. One group did roll exceedingly well in an assault and wiped out a terminator unit assaulting them though. Missed adding the +10pts for the Errants but I agree with the change for how well they perform.

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It would remove a potential balance head ache and having 1 firing mode certainly makes a unit's value easier to estimate.

The Erranta would have 4 atacjs in that situation, glove, lance and 2 base cc/ff.

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Squats 2019-10-17

Had a 4th game today with the same list, this time against some Ghaz orks. It was another butchering, the orks had really nothing left other than one untouched gargant and a few scattered broken formations of 3 or less at the end of turn 3. I lost 1 formation of 4 paladins and a formation of 3 castellans. Out come was a 3:0 victory for my knights.
My opponent was focus firing with his 5 Oddboys and gargant to some minor effect and had a good result on a first activation air assault with a full landa wiping out a paladin formation. But just couldn't deal with the omni-potent nature of the knight list. They are fast with very good long range shoots, killer in assaults and have very tough armour. It's not hard to make an effective 10 activation force either. They really are quite all round amazing with no real weaknesses.
The 4 games I've played with them: 4:0 against Biel-tan, 3:0 against Biel-tan, 5:0 against Codex marines, 3:0 against Ghaz Orks.

Anyone have any tips for facing off against knights?

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Do you think larger core formations would make a difference?

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Crossfires cut them down quick, as do prepped assaults.

Any chance of some pics to see what's going on in the games? What's the Knight army look like?

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Squats 2019-10-17

This is the list I have been using:
Incompertus, 2995 POINTS 
Knight World (NetEA v2.2.2 *APPROVED*) 
================================================== 
KNIGHT HOUSEHOLD [455] 
4 Knight Errant, Seneschal
KNIGHT HOUSEHOLD [415] 
4 Knight Paladin, Seneschal
KNIGHT HOUSEHOLD [325] 
3 Knight Paladin, Seneschal
LANCER HOUSEHOLD [500] 
3 Knight Lancer, Baron
CUSTODIAN HOUSEHOLD [375] 
3 Knight Castellan
CUSTODIAN HOUSEHOLD [375] 
3 Knight Castellan
AA GUN BATTERY [125] 
3 AA Guns, 3 Gun Transporters
AA GUN BATTERY [125] 
3 AA Guns, 3 Gun Transporters
THUNDERBOLT SQUADRON [150] 
2 Thunderbolt Fighters
THUNDERBOLT SQUADRON [150] 
2 Thunderbolt Fighters

Unfortunately my phone was really low on batteries and I didn't take any pictures of yesterday's games. My strategy is to play very defensively with the kights. Keep everything fairly castled at deployment and use thier supirior firepower to force my opponent into action. I place my objective close together and just over the haf way point so my opponent has to dedicate a large force to the area to try to hold it. And by that time I have 2-3 knight units ready to pounce and obliterate anything that approaches with clipping assaults. All the FF first strike gives me a major advantage. Not to mention all the cheese you can pull with the hordes of Warengines.

The game against the marines I used my standard strategy. He had a mostly air deploying force with a landing craft and two thunderhawks. The AA range in the AA platforms gave me an guaranteed advantage with Blast placement on his air assaulting formation. He came in full force first turn and nearly destroyed a full unit of lancers minus the baron but lost the assault due to a lot of supporting fire and good armour on the knights. So he had 4 formations broken in the first few activations and the lander destroyed. I subsequently just moped the broken formations up easily with my other knights as I had a major activation advantage due to the large combined air assault. By the end of turn 2 he'd had less than a 10th of his force left and I still had 8 mostly complete unbroken formations.

Against the eldar the very long range weapons on almost everything let's me break sword formations easily. The aspects are troublesome when mounted in vampires but on the ground are easy to cut their mobility by taking out a few tanks. I imagine an Iyanden force would give me stiff competition though.

Larger core formations like the UK list you mean? Maybe, it certainly would make the list more titan like with a lower activation count. I wouldn't be able to avoid cross fire as easily. Other than that I couldn't say never tried it.

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The Marine's LC might have been better off landing and shooting, depending on its payload. Air-assaulting with BMs and into support fire isn't good for the health. With the two THawks crossfires would have been possible too. I would have tried to break the AA guns with the THawk Battlecannons and weathers CAP/Intercept turn 1. Either saving the LC for turn 2, or landing/shooting turn 1 to get the activations on the ground.

If the Knights can break Swords of Vaul before they can close, how much terrain is on the table? I'd be surprised if you can draw a bead on enough of them to break them from shooting before they can shoot. I remember facing down Chroma's Alaitoc with Knights and I was shot to pieces by a mass of Falcons cross-firing.

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Squats 2019-10-17

We use the standard amount ~12 seperate features. The falcons have to move in pretty close and generally double to make it to a place to fire in one activation so are hitting on 5s. The knight armour saves well and they move fast so my shots back have a more significant impact as I can generally do it with an advance action and at farther range.

As for the marines I was un intentionally miss leading. The marines won the first air assault against the lancers suffered a few casualties as I had some castellans in supporting range. Where they lost was the subsequent intermingled engagment that I initiated with my Errants.

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Were they making use of pop-up? With 115cm of threat they should be able to get into a position where the Knights can't hit them on an advance (and maybe a double) while getting to shoot them first.

On the Marines my question then becomes why were they left intermingled and within engage range of Errants? Marines have a lot going for them, but most of that's thrown out the window when masses of them are left preped to be engaged with MW.

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Squats 2019-10-17

For the marines it was because they have to deploy within 5cm of the lander. It's pretty hard to avoid intermingled when deploying so many troops and vehicle all within 5 cm even with the post combat consolidation. I wouldn't deploy a group of lancers by themselves either it only makes sense to have another group close by for such an occationally. The marine player is suspect decided to risk the danger to kill off my baron/BTS. Sure he could have waited but I was just going to force his had as he had so many activations tied up in one. Also would give me the chance to CAP my fighters. It did seem like the best option for the risk/reward . And it did distract the bulk of my force to the flank away from the objectives.
As for the falcons it absolutely depends on the type of terrain being used for that argument to hold. It's not as easy as you seem to think. For one group yeah its possible but there is also the larger picture of where they end up if that's useful for subsequent turns, if they have AA in the group and are leaving assets behind exposed, or if not are they now exposed to ground assaults to aircraft.

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Hi - just wanted to say that I really like the list. I haven't played it yet, but it has the cogs churning away. My initial thoughts are as follows:

I like the Rough Riders - I was wondering how the list shifts Infantry out of cover, but I think it might be possible to abuse the 10cm zoc to lure/force them out or into an engagement.

The Castellans etc losing the Barrage sounds ok. It would force the list towards relying on its support elements more, so you have to play a bit more defensively to protect the squishier elements of your force.

Lancer FF of 5+ seems a bit weak bearing in mind they only get the Power Lance when assaulting. (I assume the wording means that and they don't get to use it if assaulted just after their own engage action?)

The flexibility of the unit sizes is the only reason I can play this list - I almost shelved the army having only seen the other Knight list with minimum 6 core units. While I understand that isn't strictly a balance issue it does impact on the player base and isn't without precedent in other lists. Possibly this gives another reason to drop the Castellan Barrage attack?

I am very much looking forward to trying this list. Am expecting it to be hard hitting but if you allow the opponent to crossfire you will prove quite brittle.