Yeah, I'd assume a 8 activation army would be far more common. That's what I keep coming up with when I'm building stuff.

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Yes, if you want heavy titans. Can play the objective game though with lightly equipped but difficult to hurt titans taking and holding objectives. Depends on opposition and a lot comes down to objective placement. Also essentially paying 400 points to say 'pass' a lot (which sounds like 'overwatch').

I guess the question is whether that's an issue or not. I kind of see it as being a bit situational. Sometimes it might wreck a list but whether it does or not isn't guaranteed. Guard has Deathstrikes and could smash a reaver t1 (I've had it happen first activation). Marines can whittle down the sentinels and warhounds. Not sure about the rest but it doesn't seem that challenging to pick apart on the surface or a huge amount of benefit gained from "passing" if the titans don't have adequate firepower.

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I think terrain might be a factor there - with 12 pieces on the table there is normally something for key titans to stand in and you are forcing the other side to move up etc before you commit. Not amazing, but certainly gets round the problem of committing a titan before weapons are much in range. I would worry most about the 4 warhounds that were always dangerous in any army

Stress testing with the nastiest list possible is great, I'm not convinced at tailoring the opponent to suit too. Air assault SM are a good list, 3 formations of night wings is nor optimal in a 3k list. Play them and nightwings/Eldar are OTT thunder hawks are rubbish

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I feel like over half those lists are more an issue related to the support missiles than any of the "standard" battle titan weapons.

What if we reserved Support Missiles to solely Emperor Class Titans, and maybe Warlord class titans. The lists all look very gimmicky, which I realize is the point, to really stress the list, but even on a fluff point of view it feels like your standard Reaver wouldn't go to battle with the one shot weapons. What is it going to do for the rest of the battle? That would be reserved for the more iconic and powerful titans which not only have better support systems, but also have auxiliary weapons to continue the fight once they blow their load so to speak.

I'm not really expecting much of a response to this, I realize half the fun with AdMech is the ability to customize, but there comes a point I feel that some restraint may be in order. It just leads to crazy polarizations of the list. I have no issue with the other "standard" battle titan weapons though. Again, it's approved so there is no point in rocking the boat too much. Just something to think about.

On a somewhat related note, I really like the Warhound Titans armed with TLD's (at least in theory). I suppose one way to limit abuse, if there actually is any, is to limit warhounds to just two, like they are supposed to be in fluff, but I feel this may open a can of worms as well which may be best to avoid. Again, customization of the list is half the beauty really.

Support missiles have been around since Titanicus and capable of deployment on the Warlord and Reaver hulls. There's no fluff grounds to limit them the the Warmonger. The mindset that it's a one shot weapon is what keeps it out of most lists. People like options and having one shot means you've limited yourself later in the game. I'd wager that the lists posted could be scary if you get blindsided after the game starts, but lists aren't secret so knowing you have a lot of incoming barrages would lead to placing troops in cover and spread out. Both of which makes the effects much less scary.

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I think you'll find that Matt included Laser Burners with those missiles very deliberately.
This of course makes the Titan extremely useful after the missiles have gone. The Titans are now void shielded engagement monsters meaning they have fantastic playability if/when the opponent recovers from being barraged to death.

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Actually, was/has any thought been given to perhaps assigning set weapon configs to the Titans? A sort of, CC Titan, FF Titan, Titan Killer, Infantry crusher etc etc idea? I know it's not the mix and match fun of the current list but could it be simpler/less troublesome?


Any approved list can be re-worked as a "Testing list" for a while on the side and any changes discovered to be good/bad can be worked into/out of the approved list at a later date.

It's been brought up before. Ben did this in his Legio Destructor list. However limited config titans has always been met with great resistance as it invalidates titan configs folks have had and used for years. Not everyone wants to crack off weapons or magnetize their models. Personally I think it's entirely unnecessary.

I do have to say that while your report with Tau is shocking, it's very much in a minority. Definitely no where near the level of concern to warrant a massive shift in the list such as fixed config titans represents.



I have thoughts to make the Titans much more interesting that I've posted on the board before but the community put it pretty low on the priority list. That's a discussion for another time. We still have Skitarii and Cataphractii to finish up before Titans can be revisited.

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You're more than welcome to add a couple if you have ideas.



I agree that AMTL having the option isn't necessarily an issue; The difference is that Guard have A deathstrike, and AMTL can take up to 9.
Recommendation: 0-1 Deathstrike.



Recommendation:
Change support allowance to be based on number of Battle titans fielded, rather than Scout Titans (Warhounds) also getting one support each
OR
Leave it as it is, but change:
Two Scout Titan Formations may be selected for each Battle Titan formation in the army to One Scout Titan Formations may be selected for each Battle Titan formation in the army.

This would tackle the 4 souped-up warhound lists, reducing them to 3 individual Warhound or 2 pairs.





Yes and no; if blindsided by 30 to 60 BP of disrupt in turn 1, you'd probably be out of the game. Experienced players would probably deploy smarter, in cover, spread out, etc.

However, the experienced players would still be taking indirect unlimited range firepower that places 3 Blast Markers before even rolling to hit. That means it's breaking Shadowswords and Warhounds and so on before dice are rolled, and with 3 templates each it shouldn't be too hard to find at least a couple of places where you can target 2 formations at once.

Experienced players will suffer less than newer ones who are learning the ropes, but the 3 BM are automatic. Then come 3 templates of sustaining disrupt, 3 times in turn 1 and 3 times in turn 2.

Recommendation:
Each type of Support Missile becomes 0-1 per army, each
(In other words, you can have 0-1 Deathstrikes and 0-1 Vortex and 0-1 Warp Missiles and 0-1 Barrage, but not spam them. Most players won't even notice the difference, but it would stop the worst potential abuse)

Super Warhounds
Turbo-laser Destructor 60cm 4x AP5+ / AT3+ 25 pts.
Recommendation
Turbo-laser Destructor 45cm 4x AP5+ / AT3+ 25 pts

This remains a far superior weapon to the Vulcan, but removes the ability to fire 4x AT4+ shots at targets 120cm away (when doubling). It would still do AT on 4+ at 105cm targets, but that might be enough to satisfy most people.



The damage caused by up to 18 MW2+ shots from a Reaver at that range has to be seen to be believed; eg On average dice it could kill 15 Predators or 7 landraiders if only their formations were that large
I've seen suggestions for the amount of shots to be reduced, which is probably the simplest.

Recommendation: Plasma Destructor 75cm 4x mw2+, Slow Firing 75 pts.


Please note that are all just suggestions, and all intended constructively.

I think 0-1 support misdile per titan would be better, they're not that good, only against WE:s.

And again, warhound "spam" is not that great as it looks on paper (and theres alot of assumptions being made in theory here!). So i see no cause to change the battle titan - scout titan ratio.

Plasma destructor can be lowered, this qas something Vaaish pushed for alone. Never saw the problem with origindl stats.

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I like this suggestion.

I like this suggestion as well.

This brings the TLD back to what it originally was. A good idea I think.

Definitely a good idea and again, back to their original stats.

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Quick thought on the Missile question. I'm sure that in Adeptus Titanicus days missiles were restricted to carapace only. This is what has been done with the EUK list and will reduce the number that can be taken in the example list above with Reavers only having a single carapace slot.

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