Yes, i like that list! The installations feel a little bit too much and could be made easier (like exchanging 1 objective for a defence laser or shield generator just like eldar does with their warp gate) but other than that your list looks better.

I think just adding trenches snd bunkers and some kind of static defense would actually be sufficent. But it would also be cool to have some other instalations.

My take on a shield generator is: for 25p you can exchange 1 objective on your side for a shield generator. This generator provided a Inv save to all friendly units within 15cm and it cannot be destroyed (like a warp gate).

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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Just so you know, I still have the notes on adding the installations option for skitarii. Its not forgotten or lost but its not a priority for the time being.

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-Vaaish

But lets say that several of the players that actually play the Skittari or have an interest in doing this would like to have installations and/or more defensive units/things in the list, would that make it a priority then?

I know theres been several discussions in the past about this.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Since the plan was to have it as an optional add on component of the skitarii list, no it wouldn't change its priority. The priority would be to test and finalize the Skitarii list itself before attempting to implement the add on.

Right now the order is wrap up amtl, move on to skitarii, then Cataphractii. Then we consider add ons. If the community really wants them we can do so before Cataphractii.

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-Vaaish

But is that your opinion or the communitys opinion? Aren't we supposed to help create this list together? Or is it your list that we just get to test?

I'm pretty sure theres more Skittari players than me that would like to see defensive options being included in the list. So lets discuss this together and let mire than 1 opinion decide the future of this list.

I'll gladly help out playtesting it and I'll have the 6 needed reports done before July is over. But I want to know that my opinions and ideas will be taken in consideration and not just brushed aside...

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

I like the idea of there being defensive options for the Skitiarii. Maybe it could be done as optional experimental rules for people to try out if they choose, with the idea of them being trialed and becoming official in future if they seem ok? It seems kind of a compromise between having them official now and something to be added only in years to come.

Please can we scrap the idea of trenches though? They're very low-tech WW era structures and not something I'd associate with the high-tech AM. Give them defence lines instead, rules would be as trenches but probably impassable to vehicles due to them being above ground and strongly built.

I like the idea of a shield generator objective giving an invulnerable save to nearby units too. GW made a model for a Void Shield Generator recently, incidentally, though it doesn't look that fantastic:

it's one of the more idiotically designed models they've come up with.



It's my direction for the list. I'll take into account what the community likes or dislikes and adjust, but it's not a democracy. My job is to develop and curate the lists and part of that is setting priorities. It makes little sense to throw more variables into a list that's still under development and expect to find balance. I can promise you I do listen and when the time is right we can revisit a defenses addon, however that time will not be until the Skitarii list itself is much closer to being finished.

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-Vaaish

But maybe it should be more of a democracy? Especially considering that you haven't provided a single report even proving you're playing the lists!

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

didn't we go through this last year?
and the year before?

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Personally I like the direction of the lists and the fact that it looks like we could pull off approval for both Titan Legions and Skitaari in the not to distant future. If everyone's finger is in the pot the food will never get done and the cook will quit.

From reading the posts in this and the Titan Legion thread I've gotten the vibe that Vaaish listens pretty well to feedback. And providing those 6 reports you mentioned Mordoten would speed up the resources to start reviewing added installations you want. And while I don't know the full process for approving a new list I do get the impression that getting stuff added to or modified or creating a new variant off an existing list is easier than getting a larger new list approved in the first place. Just my thoughts.

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Not true. Most I don't post but there have been a couple that I posted using the skitarii list in the last year. No matter, it's really not worth the energy to debate points like this. Would you prefer that I spend most of my time arguing about whether or not I play and how much or actually developing the lists? I'd wager most of us would prefer that we focus on the lists.

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-Vaaish

Yes, it's a reoccuring problem it seems. Too bad that the critique is not taken to heart.

And yes, of course we should focus on getting the lists done. But maybe you should try to listen to other ideas than your own... But good luck with the play tests.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Look, mordoten, I really do appreciate all you have done testing the AdMech lists, but it really comes down to this: There have been suggestions and discussion that has resulted in changes to the lists, tweaks to points, or added units. However, I'm not going to just make changes because someone asks for it.

Just because I say no to adding in crusaders to the cataphractii after one play test with out any proof that 8 activations will make a list unplayable or because I say the priority should be getting a list tested and reasonably balanced before adding a section that completely changes the way it plays, doesn't mean I don't listen to other ideas or even implement them when the situation warrants it. Development needs to follow a plan and have structure. Without that we all start rowing in different directions and the only thing that happens is the boat goes nowhere.

I can't force you to to see all the changes and tweaks and added units that have come about from community discussion or make you work as part of the community towards getting AdMech approved. If you are disgruntled or upset, fine, I get that but this kind of discussion isn't helping the community work together. All it's doing is making you a wedge trying to divide the community and that's not going to get us any closer to seeing AdMech approved.

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-Vaaish

I get that you don't change lists around after 1 batrep. thats not what i'm sour about. It's the way you resåond to suggestions and ideas. you just wave them off and refuse to discuss them. I find it very arrogant. you're not the only one playing Epic or having interest in the AdMech fluff you know. I've played Warhammer since the RT-days and have also designed lists and houserules for other games.

And this is an open forum after all and if i'm not satisfied in the way you run the lists i will speak my mind. If you think it's splitting the community then so be it. You cannot expect everyone too support yoyr actions and descisions in silence.
Remember, even if I critiqued You pretty harshly during the AMTL process I still provided the needed battlereports. Battlereports of a list you decided on, and in some cases with changes that i opposed alot. So I didn't obstruct anything while being critical of you.

The same goes here. I'll probably help out with this list since AdMech armies are my favourite ones in Epic. But i will still keep voicing my disatisfaction whenever i see fit. If you can't stomach that then maybe the position as AC isn't suited for you...

And of course, if moderators feel I'm out of line with my writing they're welcome to inform me of it.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Thanks Vaaish for explaining YOUR position so succintly....

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