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AMTL 3.14

 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:04 am 
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One other point to remember about the Eldar (and Tau) spaceship costings is that they allow for orbital deployment for certain units, something that the AMTL does not have and so the cost should be less.

I'm for 175pts maximum (whist believing that there is no need to change the cost at all really).

Thanks for all the continued efforts E&C.

*Edit - decided against removing the tax on Warhound weapons eh?  :whistle:




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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:34 am 
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Quote: (Onyx @ 23 Jun. 2009, 02:04 )

One other point to remember about the Eldar (and Tau) spaceship costings is that they allow for orbital deployment for certain units, something that the AMTL does not have and so the cost should be less.

I'm for 175pts maximum (whist believing that there is no need to change the cost at all really).

The Eldar Wraithship doesn't allow for planetfalling any formations, and only has a single attack, at 150 points.

Two Pin-Point attacks is a great boon to the AMTL, as they can "open" with that attack to, potentially, eliminate a lot of "smaller" War Engine threats, such as Shadowswords or Cobras, and there's nothing the enemy can do about it.




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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:02 pm 
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*Edit - decided against removing the tax on Warhound weapons eh?


Yes... I asked for playtest reports featuring lots of twin warhounds in order to prove them not-so-awesome, and I haven't seen any yet. :)

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 23 Jun. 2009, 09:34 )

Quote: (Onyx @ 23 Jun. 2009, 02:04 )

One other point to remember about the Eldar (and Tau) spaceship costings is that they allow for orbital deployment for certain units, something that the AMTL does not have and so the cost should be less.

I'm for 175pts maximum (whist believing that there is no need to change the cost at all really).

The Eldar Wraithship doesn't allow for planetfalling any formations, and only has a single attack, at 150 points.

Two Pin-Point attacks is a great boon to the AMTL, as they can "open" with that attack to, potentially, eliminate a lot of "smaller" War Engine threats, such as Shadowswords or Cobras, and there's nothing the enemy can do about it.

I got the Wraithship and the Dragonship confused.

I still don't believe that a Gothic Cruiser is worth 50pts more than a Lunar Cruiser.
The Lunar Cruiser is just as effective at killing a superheavy tank and it will usually deter the Guard's opponent from placing formations in preffered (defendable) positions as the orbital barrage can be devastating. It can really influence deployment.

Sorry guys, 200pts for a one shot wonder is too much (at least the Tau can planetfall units giving the Spaceship more value, but since it moved to 200 pts I haven't used it once). At least a Deathstrike Battery can claim objectives/place blastmarkers after (if) it fires it's missiles.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 23 Jun. 2009, 20:02 )

*Edit - decided against removing the tax on Warhound weapons eh?


Yes... I asked for playtest reports featuring lots of twin warhounds in order to prove them not-so-awesome, and I haven't seen any yet. :)

I know I have already mentioned, at least once, a game we played where 4 Warhounds were armed with twin Turbolasers and it was pointless because they were facing a Krieg army with infantry in trenches or Titans/superheavies which were resistant to conventional attacks (ie not MW/TK).

We don't need to discuss my mate's army composition here either, just a tax on a weapon system.
I believe that, if the weapons are correctly pointed, there is no need for this tax.

There you go, you have (and have had for a while) one.  :)

Photo of the game. Krieg won.




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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:23 pm 
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My God men, we are surrounded!

Did I ever play you Ben using twin weapon systems or was that just Dystartes?

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:30 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 23 Jun. 2009, 13:23 )

My God men, we are surrounded!

Did I ever play you Ben using twin weapon systems or was that just Dystartes?

You did, and that game was one of the factors that finally convinced me that double-fit Warhounds were indeed worth 25pts more than their less role-specific brothers.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 22 Jun. 2009, 16:58 )

- Removed the Carapace Multi-laser's ability to shoot at ground based targets.

I obviously have missed something along the way. Since when were CMLs AA weapons only? That totally contradicts their traditional role.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:55 pm 
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My argument against the tax remains that VMB + inferno is at least as good as 2xVMB.

"Specific role" doesn't always mean multiples of the same weapon.




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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Quote: (Dwarf Supreme @ 23 Jun. 2009, 14:30 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 22 Jun. 2009, 16:58 )

- Removed the Carapace Multi-laser's ability to shoot at ground based targets.

I obviously have missed something along the way. Since when were CMLs AA weapons only? That totally contradicts their traditional role.

I admit to not having looked up their traditional stats there, only agreed with some comments on the French forum that seemed to make sense.

Thoughts gents?

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:12 pm 
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Well, I don't see a reason why the multilasers can't also target ground units. I'd figure they have a range of motion that would allow them to track low flying aircraft and to pull in a real world example, the german 88's were capable AT platforms as well as AA.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:32 pm 
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I'm less likely to take them if they're only AAA. I see no reason to eliminate their traditional anti-personnel role.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Quote: (Dwarf Supreme @ 23 Jun. 2009, 15:32 )

I'm less likely to take them if they're only AAA. I see no reason to eliminate their traditional anti-personnel role.

Weren't they "point defence" weapons?

Perhaps make them AA *shooting* only, and give +1FF attack or something.

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 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Perhaps make them AA *shooting* only, and give +1FF attack or something.

This seems rather complicated to me and wouldn't point defense weapons have already been factored into the FF value? Was there a problem with how the multi-lasers operated at 30cm 2x AP/AT/AA5+?

Perhaps give them the same ap/at as the IG multi-lasers with the 5+ AA attack instead?




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