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Very very very very very very very stupid question
zombocom
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:20 am 
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Realism doesn't come into it. It's a neccessary abstraction given the BM system and makes points values much easier to calculate.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:53 am 
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Quote: (Malakai @ 02 Jan. 2009, 16:26 )

Quote: (javelin98 @ 02 Jan. 2009, 15:18 )

Targeting is one of the aspects of E:A that I disagree with.  I think multiple weapon systems should be able to target different targets, especially for something like a Titan.

I agree with this. Though the reason that Titans can't fire at multiple formations is because every formation they fire at will have a blast marker placed on it.

That's considered too powerful. Though if they did allow it I could see a lot more people taking titans in their armies!  :)

Not allowing Titans to split fire is personally my biggest complaint about E:A. Why not have a special rule that allows Battle Titans, or at least Warlords, to split fire? Say, only the first formation that is targeted receives a blast marker for coming under fire.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:58 am 
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Quote: (Dwarf Supreme @ 05 Jan. 2009, 01:53 )

Not allowing Titans to split fire is personally my biggest complaint about E:A. Why not have a special rule that allows Battle Titans, or at least Warlords, to split fire? Say, only the first formation that is targeted receives a blast marker for coming under fire.

I *really* don't see what's so bad about allowing 850 points to put a Blast marker on two separate formations... perhaps allow Battle Titans to "intermingle" enemy formations for shooting in addition to assaults...

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:31 am 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 04 Jan. 2009, 20:58 )

Quote: (Dwarf Supreme @ 05 Jan. 2009, 01:53 )

Not allowing Titans to split fire is personally my biggest complaint about E:A. Why not have a special rule that allows Battle Titans, or at least Warlords, to split fire? Say, only the first formation that is targeted receives a blast marker for coming under fire.

I *really* don't see what's so bad about allowing 850 points to put a Blast marker on two separate formations

Neither do I, actually.

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Vaaish
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:56 am 
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I *really* don't see what's so bad about allowing 850 points to put a Blast marker on two separate formations... perhaps allow Battle Titans to "intermingle" enemy formations for shooting in addition to assaults...


To play devils advocate, I guess it could be argued that 850 isn't that far off of a leman russ company at 650 which is unable to target more than one formation. However once you hit the imperators at around 1200 I don't see why it's a problem either.

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Onyx
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:45 am 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 05 Jan. 2009, 08:20 )

Realism doesn't come into it. It's a neccessary abstraction given the BM system and makes points values much easier to calculate.

I'm with Zombo on this.

It's not about making a highly detailed recreation of actual combat.
It's about making a set of rules that work for a game.

Epic is a simple game and it should stay that way.

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javelin98
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 04 Jan. 2009, 17:20 )

Realism doesn't come into it. It's a neccessary abstraction given the BM system and makes points values much easier to calculate.

Yeah, I know.  I just had to poke a stick at whichever 40K designer was quoted in that previous post!

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Ginger
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:11 pm 
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For what its worth, the '40k designer' was JJ.

And regarding realism and BMs etc, there is a huge difference between static positions where small groups or even individuals can be given fire arcs and effectively different enemy formations to shoot at, and mobile tactics where often a part of the formation becomes engaged and the remainder is then manoeuvered to counter that particular threat.

To this end, I guess it would be more reasonable to formation fire to be split either when sustaining, or when on OW. However, this would tilt things heavily in favour of the defender (just coinsider the arguments over Taus units as a fore-taste), so I would only suggest doing this for the largest Titans.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:17 pm 
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Quote: (Vaaish @ 05 Jan. 2009, 02:56 )

To play devils advocate, I guess it could be argued that 850 isn't that far off of a leman russ company at 650 which is unable to target more than one formation. However once you hit the imperators at around 1200 I don't see why it's a problem either.

Maybe a rule along the lines of any unit/formation worth more than 750 points can chose to split its fire at two different formations.

Or it could be 1000 points or over...

Thoughts?

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Vaaish
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:28 pm 
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I think I'd rather it be any war engine over X points as opposed to any unit/formation over X points. Tat would further limit it to only the most massive and heavily armed of units.

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vytzka
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:40 pm 
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But that change would require all such models to be recosted upwards again...
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Ginger
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:24 pm 
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Still not sure on this. Part of the issue with really expensive formations is the effect they have on the overall battle merely by their presence. Check the results on the Imperator thread

Basic view there is that the way that shooting effects are curbed by moving the titan is just about balanced - though the presence of the titan drastically changes the way the battle is fought. So increasing the effect of shooting by allowing multiple targets may unbalance the game in favour of the large formation . . .  (but is probably worth testing)

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javelin98
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:27 pm 
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Unless there was some way to change the handling of blast markers.  Maybe a unit only takes a blast marker for coming under fire from 50% of the firing unit or more, something like that.  Man, this is getting complicated.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:22 am 
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Quote: (javelin98 @ 11 Jan. 2009, 22:27 )

. . . . Man, this is getting complicated.

And that is actually at the heart of this apparently 'simple'  problem :laugh:

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Morgan Vening
 Post subject: Very very very very very very very stupid question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:43 am 
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How about making it a tactical decision?

Any model over X points may split their fire amongst TWO enemy formations. Neither of these units get the 'free' blast marker for being fired upon.

Forces a choice. Split instead of overkilling one, or concentrating if you just need to kill/break the other.

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