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AMTL 3.08

Evil and Chaos

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:21 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

You are correct, although I was considering nudging the Ordinatus Minoris up to 175/200pts, as at 150 it can take a Volcano Cannon and end up the same price as a Shadowsword, whilst being somewhat better (2DC plus 2 Void Shields, versus 3DC).

Nudging it to 175pts would make your list 150pts too expensive.

EDIT: Ordinatae are also Initiative 1+, a big boost over Shadowswords.

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J0k3r

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:35 pm

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Location: Edinburgh, UK

Should the ordinatus minoris be provided in groups of 2 or 3 to avoid their over use in a MSU list?

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Tiny-Tim

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:38 pm

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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
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Location: North Yorkshire

Ok, Reviewing the list and thinking about playability (real word?) a revised list.

1- Reaver Battle Titan - Plasma Gun, Melta Cannon & Las Burner (FF) + Carapace Multi Lasers - 600+0+50+0+50 = 700
2- Warhound Pack - 2x Vulcan Mega-Bolters each = 500
3- Warhound Pack - 2x Vulcan Mega-Bolters each = 500
4- Warhound - 2x Inferno Guns = 275
5- Sentinals = 100
6- Ordinatus Minorus - Gatling Blaster - 175+25 = 200
7- Ordinatus Minorus - Gatling Blaster - 175+25 = 200
8- Ordinatus Minorus - Plasma Blastgun = 175
9- Ordinatus Minorus - Plasma Blastgun = 175
10- Ordinatus Minorus - Plasma Blastgun = 175

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:39 pm

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Try the Ordinatus Minoris at 175pts to start with, it's obviously a weak spot in the list.

Having five of your activations as 2DC war engines (Easy to break), and a sixth as Sentinels, would not lead to an army that is resilient to BM's however... I suspect that list might fall down late-on in the game due to lack of activations.

EDIT: Your list would also be vulnerable to air assaults & strafing runs, as you have just one short-ranged AA platform.

For all the plasma (9 shots) it's all fitted to relatively slow gun platforms; Ordinatus Minoris don't have the speed to bring it to bear in the same manner as a Warhound Titan, and I suspect their particular niche is in using longer-ranged weapons like Volcano Cannons or even Support Missiles.

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Tiny-Tim

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:41 pm

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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
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Location: North Yorkshire

List updated

True, but you've taken away the Hydras so I am left with either incorporating Thunderbolts or playing more battle titans so that I can upgrade with Carapace Lasers.

I have found BMs to be a problem for AMTL no matter how I build a list.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:55 pm

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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Minor update performed.

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Crabowl

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:09 pm

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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:44 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Finland

Kinda nice and removes all the useless options compared to the AMTL list.

Reaver (650)
?2 x Missile, Volcano Cannon
Warhound Pack (500)
Warhound Pack (500)
Warhound Pack (500)
Recon Platoon (100)
Recon Platoon (100)
Ordinatus Minoris (175)
Ordinatus Minoris (175)
Thunderbolts (150)
Thunderbolts (150)

Now I'm off to glue some plasmas on old land raider hulls

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nealhunt

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:59 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Did anyone point out that Missiles should be carapace only?

I think it looks okay. It seems the standard battle titan configurations from the book would be 25 points cheaper, which seems reasonable.

I'd like to see just a touch more variety in the Support formations - really just a mounted infantry formation. Controlling area and/or frontage will be a problem. Even with the potentially substantially cheaper battle titans and the variety of small WEs available, I think there will always be need for infantry.

For the knights, Paladins are enough for TL attachments.

For the allies, I wouldn't include IG or SM. Keep the AMTL self-contained.

Even with the 1/3 restriction on allies, I think Tim pointed out how the list can almost become an Ordinatus list rather than a titan list. Those might need to be 0-X to preserve the flavor of the list. Keepm them to a minimum and save them to be the backbone of a AM/Tech Guard list. Ord Min in a company size would make sense as well.

Why initiative 1+ for the Ordinati?

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:08 pm

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Did anyone point out that Missiles should be carapace only?

Only you.

It seems the standard battle titan configurations from the book would be 25 points cheaper, which seems reasonable.

They should work out the same as normal. 850, 650 & 275.

I'd like to see just a touch more variety in the Support formations - really just a mounted infantry formation. Controlling area and/or frontage will be a problem. Even with the potentially substantially cheaper battle titans and the variety of small WEs available, I think there will always be need for infantry.

Me too.

Even with the 1/3 restriction on allies, I think Tim pointed out how the list can almost become an Ordinatus list rather than a titan list. Those might need to be 0-X to preserve the flavor of the list. Keepm them to a minimum and save them to be the backbone of a AM/Tech Guard list. Ord Min in a company size would make sense as well.

I agree that they need to be more limited than they are currently; Their omnipresence suggests to me that 175pts might still be too cheap, and 200pts could be more appropriate.

Especially if we see some Skitarii Infantry sharing the same Allies restriction.

Why initiative 1+ for the Ordinati?

I was on the edge on this one, and can see why they could become more balanced by going to Init 2+.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:01 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Minor update, latest version 3.02

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:04 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

I've seen no thoughts on the catastrophic damage table yet.

Is it a poor idea in concept?

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Dwarf Supreme

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:09 pm

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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
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Location: Canton, CT, USA

Some thoughts:

1. I really don't see the need to rename the MRL to Apocalypse Missile launcher.

2. I'd leave off IG and Marines as Allies. Tech Guard/Skitarii seem more appropriate to me. Also, having them as support formations might be better.

3. For the Close Combat weapon, I'm not sure Extra Attack (+1) is sufficient, even with TK (D6). I'd like to be able to take an anti-infantry CC weapon, like the Chain Fist which is Extra Attack (+6).

4. It'd be nice to have the Hydra brought back. I understand that an army list is defined as much by its weaknesses as strengths, but AMTL does need some sort of decent AAA capability.

5. I know you're right rightfully up in the air about Knights, but I'd like to see at least Paladins and Lancers on the AMTL list. All of the other variants should really be reserved for a dedicated Knight list. For Paladins, I like the flexibility of taking 3 or 6.

6. I like the Catastrophic Damage table.

Thanks in advance for all your hard work on this list.

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ragnarok

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:04 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England

I like the list as it is so far, I am in full support of variable weapon costs and will back it until I forget what I am doing.

The list as written only invalidates 2.5 of my titans, which I thing is a reasonable amount for a 9 titan legion.

I have lost a warlord, due to it having a corvus assault pod.

A reaver since it has a chian fist and two gatling blasters, with the design being anti heavy stuff, now its CC weapon is anti titan

and a second Reaver becuase it was a catch all CC reaver with power fist and Chain fist and is now just anti titan in CC.

Comments on the list

the wording on Ordinatus majoris says that you choose two weapons (each being the same) and that it has two of this weapon. a rules lawer could argue that this means it has 4 lots of weapon.

I don't see sentinels as part of the legio. They seem forced into the core list, just because hey are bipedial walkers. I would swap them with the Ordinatus majoris and minoris. This would also remove the 0-1 per 1000pts limit on the minoris, since you are getting one or less per battle titan.

as for the allies. I would prefer to see the allies being 1/3 of your list may be from ther tech guard list and have a dedicated techguard list to go with this one.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:15 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

@ Dwarf Supreme

1. I really don't see the need to rename the MRL to Apocalypse Missile launcher.

It is entirely unnessesary, but it will help when guys come looking at Epic in two years' time wondering where their familiar weapons are.

2. I'd leave off IG and Marines as Allies.

Already gone.

3. For the Close Combat weapon, I'm not sure Extra Attack (+1) is sufficient, even with TK (D6). I'd like to be able to take an anti-infantry CC weapon, like the Chain Fist which is Extra Attack (+6).

I'm not tied to having only one Titan CCW, but the byzantine array of weapons needed a severe reduction.

On a practical note, I can't really fathom how a big fist wreathed in eldritch powers, and a big fist with chainblades on the side, would have any different an effect on the infantry scampering around their feet.

4. It'd be nice to have the Hydra brought back. I understand that an army list is defined as much by its weaknesses as strengths, but AMTL does need some sort of decent AAA capability.

Carapace Multi-Lasers & Thunderbolt squadrons don't make a terrible start on providing AA.

If they do return, they'll be in the allys budget.

5. I know you're right rightfully up in the air about Knights, but I'd like to see at least Paladins and Lancers on the AMTL list. All of the other variants should really be reserved for a dedicated Knight list. For Paladins, I like the flexibility of taking 3 or 6.

Everyone has their favourite Knights.

Thanks in advance for all your hard work on this list.

Cheers, I hope this could be the start of a long, fruitful road!

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: AMTL 3.08

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:19 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

(ragnarok @ Mar. 07 2008,19:04)

QUOTE

I have lost a warlord, due to it having a corvus assault pod.

I could see the Corvus Pod making a triumphant return for the Skitarii army list at the least, an possibly this list too.

I wanted to strip the list back to the absolute basics before we started to build it tall again.

the wording on Ordinatus majoris says that you choose two weapons (each being the same) and that it has two of this weapon. a rules lawer could argue that this means it has 4 lots of weapon.

Good point. I'll pokle the language.

I don't see sentinels as part of the legio. They seem forced into the core list, just because hey are bipedial walkers. I would swap them with the Ordinatus majoris and minoris. This would also remove the 0-1 per 1000pts limit on the minoris, since you are getting one or less per battle titan.

Ordinatae are supposed to be fairly rare, not a mainstay unit.

Sentinels are in there because yeah, they're visually in-theme (Credit goes to TRC's list structure for the Sentinels' presence).

as for the allies. I would prefer to see the allies being 1/3 of your list may be from ther tech guard list and have a dedicated techguard list to go with this one.

Noted.

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