Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 6
  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Knights
Gary
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:38 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
There are some good ideas above I think. I'd really like to see the knights given a dose of ... knightliness. Something to make them a bit noble and revered. Not sure the 'adapted machinery' thing conjures this up on its own (though it would certainly work as the origin of the knights, or as an alternative use for similar machinery).

I'd like to see the feudal theme really brought out somehow. Familial groups full of vain individuals and their petty rivalries, agricultural societies ruled by haughty knights who are like gods to the backward populations. Maybe knights as ancient family heirlooms passed down the generations.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
J0k3r
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:20 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 876
Location: Edinburgh, UK
I also think it would be really neat to underpin the interaction of the ad mech and knight households with  the influence of the machine cult, introduced to keep the knight households in check.  Ie they almost worship their knights and revere the ad mechs who can keep them running.

_________________
"Do not offend the Chair Leg of Truth; it is wise and terrible."
-Spider Jerusalem
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:35 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Knights should be STCs. So there is no problem in having Agri-Knights and Battle-Knights.

But...how old are Knights? If the Knights ARE derived from Exodite Knights then 10.000years should be enough to adapt them.
On the other hand: during the Great Crusade the Imperium wasn't as suspicious as today and had fewer problems in adapting new technologies.
It was during the Great Crusade the Imperium found the first Knight World. here humans and Exodite Eldar lived on the same planet waging war against each other. The humans had build their own version of the Exodite Knights and the Adeptus Mechanicum was quick to adopt this new technolgy for themselves.
Knights where seen as more flexible than tanks and easier to produce and maintain than Titans.
From then on Adeptus Mechanicus Forgeworldsworlds and Agriworlds where protected by Knight Housholds.
During the Horus Heresy the Adeptus Mechanicus fought against itselve in a bloody civil war. This war was mostly fought on the Forgeworld and the distand Agriworlds where mostly ignorant of the events. Because of this on the Forgeworlds most Knight Households where destroyed but the Housholds on the Agriworlds remained untouched.
After the Heresy Knights where a rarity on Adeptus Mechanicus Forgeworlds but wherever the Adeptrus Machanicus waged war they looked after their Agriworlds and called the loyal staying Knight Housholds for help.

Is this okay? :)
Surely it needs some fine tuning.




_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:08 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4893
Location: North Yorkshire
Just to throw another cog into the works. I would like to see that any knights we finally adopt are able to be built out of existing GW products. Whilst I appreciate that there are other companies, if we end up with this as a tournament list then when we go to a GW GT we will need to demonstrate that we are not using another companies models.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Vermis
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:40 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:36 pm
Posts: 941
Paladins (+ Crusaders and Errants*) might be relatively easy to cobble together with 40K SM parts, along with a few other bits and styrene. ?The others may need some more thought.

*Any info on the different types of knights?  From what I see Lancers, Paladins and Wardens are light, main (Medium?  Tactical?), and heavy respectively, which is pretty straightforward.  I'm not sure where Errants and Crusaders fit, though.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:56 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

(Tiny-Tim @ Mar. 11 2008,10:08)
QUOTE
Just to throw another cog into the works. I would like to see that any knights we finally adopt are able to be built out of existing GW products. Whilst I appreciate that there are other companies, if we end up with this as a tournament list then when we go to a GW GT we will need to demonstrate that we are not using another companies models.

This is one of my biggest concerns too.

To provide a recipie for scratchbuilding Knights, that look good, in-scale, and don't require scratch-sculpting.


I have a vague idea involving printers & cut-out templates.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:02 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

(Hena @ Mar. 11 2008,12:01)
QUOTE
There was some very good ideas of using Necron models a while in painting forums.

I agree.  It seems to me 40K Necrons with SM bits would provide decent results with minimal effort.  IIRC, the ones in the forum still looked like Necron models but a little bit more conversion would have obscured it pretty well.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
alansa
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: surrey uk
My thoughts on the character of knights and background...

Should be close to real medevial history.

The core of warhammer 40k is made of two influences:
Medieval europe and Tolkien's Silmarillion. I believe when dealing with 40k backcground, one should always have these key influences in mind.

In the case of the imperium, Medieval Europe is the key
influencing factor here obviously.

Now - just because we think of knights as being titled land owners from an agricultural past doesn't mean our
knights have to be agricultural too. There was no heavy industry in Medieval times, but had there been, there would have been knights involved in it!

In an imperium that has many industries, knights could easily come from these any of these.

Remember also that 40k already has knights, space marines. But space marines are usually knights of holy orders and represent chaps like the Knights Templar etc, and crucially are largely independent and beholden to no one!

Our AMTL knights can be of a more ordinary, and less holy type.

I guess the important point is that the knights are granted titles and "resources" (the word I would have used would have been land, but as shown this needn't be the case) by powerful imperial insitutions, such as the AM.

As for their armour, well they cold simpy given something similar to power armour. However, I'm sure we all agree that for the AMTL, and general epic tradition, something larger is required. The old knight designs where pretty good but who knows if GW would ever make anything like that again. Except perhaps for Apocolypse. ?:(

Naturally, every thing about knights should be hereditary. The title, the heraldry, the armour.

As befits the tone of 40k, they shouldn't be noble, pure, and chivalric. Rather they are entirely selfish and vain.
Often allowing their ego's and pride to help cock up battles and even entire campaigns.  Many people, view knights, rather differently then the knights view themselves: with disdain and disgust.




_________________
[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England

(Hena @ Mar. 11 2008,12:01)
QUOTE
There was some very good ideas of using Necron models a while in painting forums.

However after the lastest GW cut backs the classic necron immortal body is no longer on their online store, thus the conversion isn't possible

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Gary
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:44 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:38 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
As befits the tone of 40k, they shouldn't be noble, pure, and chivalric. Rather they are entirely selfish and vain.
Often allowing their ego's and pride to help cock up battles and even entire campaigns.


I like this theme a lot. It'd be great if some of the knights indulged in grand heroic follies, like some knights from history. You could have the 40k equivalent of "I vow to wear a blindfold until the day I conquer Jerusalem", that kind of thing.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
alansa
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:59 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: surrey uk

(Gary @ Mar. 12 2008,00:44)
QUOTE
As befits the tone of 40k, they shouldn't be noble, pure, and chivalric. Rather they are entirely selfish and vain.
Often allowing their ego's and pride to help cock up battles and even entire campaigns.


I like this theme a lot. It'd be great if some of the knights indulged in grand heroic follies, like some knights from history. You could have the 40k equivalent of "I vow to wear a blindfold until the day I conquer Jerusalem", that kind of thing.

Yeah that sort of thing would be really great, but, I fear something more for the likes of Inquistor than Epic!

I guess orky style mods to iniative could be doable. With the knights foolishly charging off into un-winable and unprepared assaults at the slightest provocation

_________________
[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:43 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Reading the thread, it sounds like you are describing Feudal Japan anywhere between 900AD to 1615AD (when the Tokugawa Shogunate really took off and closed Japan for the next 250 years); crossed with Dune by Frank Herbert. In essence you have
  • "Clans" of inter-related families, each vieing for total control of their world / universe
  • A Military hierachy within the "clans" created originally to protect the world from outside influences, which turns inwards on itself in times of 'peace'
  • A social heirachy with artisans etc at the bottom, and the 'ruling classes' at the top, with associated religious factions.
  • A 'puppet' emperor, whose authority stems from the possession of various regalia or sacred articles (Mirror, jewels and Sword in Japan). Controlling these regalia gives one or other clan the control over the emperor, and hence the right to be called "Shogun" and to set up government etc.
  • External influences (Koreans in Japanese history) and weather, which together with a reverence of the divine lineage of the emperor (currently unbroken for 124 generations), and Religious festivals etc, combine to unite the people in single-minded activity where needed
  • I might add, that the government / Shogun would levy military support from the "clans" in the form of ordinary soldiers etc, with various forms of weaponry. Later on armies would include muskets, cannon, mobile forts, etc as well as mercenaries.
Tanslating the above into our terms, this presents the following styles of formation
  • Military Knights
    Equivalent to Japanese ?"Samurai" - noble families trained for war with weapons to match
  • "Other" knights.
    The equivalent of auxilliary weaponry etc - Ad hoc devices purchased or created for the particular campaign (eg ships, cannon, muskets, forts etc), and often greatly revered
  • "Allied knights"
    The equivalent of Allies / warrior monks - smaller formations with slightly weaker skills and weaponry than "Samurai", allied to the "clan" for a particular reason.
  • Mercenaries
    Samurai out for hire, with weapons and skills to match, but only tied to the "clan" by financial means, and potentially unreliable. (This includes Ninja families who specialised in the elimination of particular targets - and who could be bought off - for a price)
  • Peasant soldiers
    Large numbers of usually poorly armed troops, though a few with weapons equal or superior to their lords.
  • Blitz objective marker
    One of the Holy relics taken into battle to encourage the troops. Any formation within 30 cms of it, which is attacking an enemy formation that is also within 30 cms of the Blitz objective receives a +1 bonus to it's attacking dice rolls. If an enemy formation occupies the Blitz, all friendly formations suffer a -1 penalty to their attacking dice unless attacking that formation.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:58 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Reading the thread, it sounds like you are describing Feudal Japan... crossed with Dune by Frank Herbert.

That would work for me.  :;):

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
alansa
 Post subject: Knights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:09 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: surrey uk
It's funny, but I've seen the Imperium (like the Empire in Warhammer) as being European! It Never occured to me to look at it in a Japanese light!

I guess there's analogues and cross-overs though! I've always thought it interesting how people interpret things based on what they know and their "vocabulary"

The emperor represents Christ/Holy Roman emperor in one. Though in his present condition it seems doubtful he has any real power.

Voltaire said that the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire! This is exactly true of the Imperium. It's almost a loose federation only held together by the military might of the Emperor.

I'm not 100% certain but I think all Knights where fighting warriros in Medieval times.

_________________
[url=http://tinyurl.com/bott2015][img]http://i62.tinypic.com/205fcow.jpg[/img][/url]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 6
  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net