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Towards 3.11
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:08 am 
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Changes I'm currently looking at as we move towards 3.11:


- No more that 2 'free' weapon systems allowed on a Battle Titan.

- Rocket Launcher goes to being a +25pt weapon.

- Ordinatus Minoris and Majoris removed from the list, and only available for the Skitarii army.

- Forge Knight introduced.

- A restriction that says 'Single Warhounds may not carry two of the same weapon', or an increase of 25pts.

- Scrap the unweildy 3 support formations/only one of each restriction and simply set it at 2 support formations per battle titan.

- Set a 0-1 on the Supreme Commander, and by popular demand make him non-compulsory for Emperor class titans.




Thoughts?

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:36 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 30 2008,10:08)
QUOTE
- Ordinatus Minoris and Majoris removed from the list, and only available for the Skitarii army.

Nooooo!

I was told that if I scrapbuild Ordinatus I get to use it with Titans. But then again, it was before you as army champion so it does not chain you... But anyway: Noooo!

Minoris can go as far I am conserned but not the Majoris.

:) (Smiley to tell that I am not _that_ serious)

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:45 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 30 2008,10:08)
QUOTE
Changes I'm currently looking at as we move towards 3.11:


- No more that 2 'free' weapon systems allowed on a Battle Titan.

I can understand the thinking with this, but are free weapons  that powerful that they need to be restricted or is this to to increase the overal cost of battle titans.

- Rocket Launcher goes to being a +25pt weapon.
Have these been shown to be too powerful?

- Ordinatus Minoris and Majoris removed from the list, and only available for the Skitarii army.
Ok, have converted 1 model, but I can live with this. Is this to focus more on titans?

- Forge Knight introduced. If we must. Would like to see a formation size of 4 or 5.

- A restriction that says 'Single Warhounds may not carry two of the same weapon', or an increase of 25pts.
Is this needed, in the AMTL this is the most cost effective use of a Warhound.
- Scrap the unweildy 3 support formations/only one of each restriction and simply set it at 2 support formations per battle titan.
Happy with this.
- Set a 0-1 on the Supreme Commander, and by popular demand make him non-compulsory for Emperor class titans. This will keep you on my Christmas card list  :p

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:53 am 
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I was told that if I scrapbuild Ordinatus I get to use it with Titans.


I would highly recommend the use of the Skitarii army list at that point... Leman Russ Tanks, Infantry with carapace armour, Ordinatae, and Titans with variable weapwns. :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:02 pm 
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I can understand the thinking with this, but are free weapons  that powerful that they need to be restricted or is this to to increase the overal cost of battle titans.


I don't think there's a need to increase the overall cost, but there does seem to be a need to raise the minimum cost.

A standard Warlord or Reaver will remain at the points values we know and love.

Have these been shown to be too powerful?

I believe so.

I played a game vs TRC last night where he min-maxed the hell out of the list, and despite my slightly silly army list skewing the results somewhat, I was convinced that the Rocket Launcher is too good to be free.

Personally,  I reckon it's worth around 17 points, but I've comitted to rounding off to 25's. :D


Is this (Ordinatae moving to the Skitarii list only) to focus more on titans?

Yes.

If we must. Would like to see a formation size of 4 or 5.

I was thinking 6 for 400pts.

Is this needed, in the AMTL this is the most cost effective use of a Warhound.

TRC reckons this balances the dual-fit Warhounds.

I was thinking that another way of limiting dual-fit Warhounds would be words to the effect of:

'No more than half of your Warhounds may be armed with two of the same weapon'

This would allow you choice of where to have the dual-fit Hounds at least, rather than restricting them to packs only.

Dual-fit Warhounds are certainly better than single-fit hounds.

Thoughts?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:22 pm 
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All the proposed changes are worth testing, but not all at once!


Apologies for the sudden shifts. :)

I hope that once we reach 3.11 the list can settle down for a month or so ; At the moment, several of the issues for 3.11 are indeed problematic... though you're right, I don't think adopting every one of the changes is nessesarily the best way to go at it.

I am going to put off breaking weapons off for the moment.

Would restricting free weapons to a max of two break your list?

I get the impression that most people don't take 100% free weapons, other than rocket launchers (Which would not longer be free anyway).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:36 pm 
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why limit them!


Last night both Ginger & TRC were concerned about the potential cheapness of the Titans... and I'm not keen on simply upping the base cost and moving all the weapons down a pip, as that would mean most/all of the free weapons would never get taken again.

Something I think I have to restate ... many proposals for the AMTL list hark back to the past, and do not relfect GW's current presentation of Titans.

It is my job to balance the factual reality of GW's current Titan background (For example, turbolasers are identical between Warhound and Warlord Titans), whilst also allowing people to use their older Titans, which in many cases do not match the current Titan background... I'm looking for a happy middleground between the two, so the list is approachable for Newbies and Grognards alike.


I don't think all of my 3.11 proposals will actually get adopted into the list, but I wanted to raise some possible directions we could head in.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:39 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 30 2008,05:08)
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- Set a 0-1 on the Supreme Commander, and by popular demand make him non-compulsory for Emperor class titans.

I'd really like to be able to take a Legate with a Reaver. I sometimes field an army with Reavers, but no Warlords. However, if I'm the only person that would like to be able to do this, I'll stop lobbying for it.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:42 pm 
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However, if I'm the only person that would like to be able to do this, I'll stop lobbying for it.


Rug wants it too, at the least.

I'll start a vote.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:47 pm 
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I'd like to be able to use my 3 reavers with a legate too, infact in the first game I played I did as I missed the restriction to warlord only!
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:56 pm 
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3.11 will make the indirect MLRS Warlord  more expesive than ever, the indirect Reaver goes from not being worth it, to being worth a shot, and back to too expensive in as many iterations!


Don't worry, the CLP will drop in price accordingly.

Reavers and WHs recieve the option of 1 of each common weapon for free.

I've been thinking something along similar lines (Free weapons costing more if several of the same type are taken), but haven't put together any structure yet.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Towards 3.11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:08 pm 
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I'm still for dropping the Warhounds cost by -10pts Ravers cost by -15pts and the Warlord cost by -20pts and up the cost of all weapons by +5pts.

So i will be able to field Vandals, Nightgaunts, and Eclipses without leaving off free weapons.

At last i have a Reaver with two MRL as arms but a banner pole on the carapace.




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