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AMTL 3.08
ragnarok
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:41 pm 
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So if we have tec guard,were is the corvus assault pod?

It could have transpot1, so that it can carry a demi centuryofskitaror a raetorian cohort.

With the spacecraftI would keep them the same a the imperial navy ones, but give them an extra TK(1) pinpoint attack to repesent the dorsal lance. ?TK(1) nstead of TK(D3) is to represent the sinle lance rather than a battery.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:07 pm 
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So if we have tec guard,were is the corvus assault pod?


Ummm... over there!



Yeah, that one needs adding back doesn't it. :)

It could have transpot10, so that it can carry a demi centuryofskitaror a raetorian cohort.

I agree that transport 10 would be good from the list's POV.

What was the Corvus Pod's original capacity, anyone have an old rulebook to hand?

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Crabowl
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:39 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 16 2008,18:07)
QUOTE
What was the Corvus Pod's original capacity, anyone have an old rulebook to hand?

Four stands of terminators.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:47 pm 
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(Crabowl @ Mar. 16 2008,18:39)
QUOTE

(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 16 2008,18:07)
QUOTE
What was the Corvus Pod's original capacity, anyone have an old rulebook to hand?

Four stands of terminators.

so about 8 stands of normal guys, and the techguard can be squezzed in a bit more tightly (fewer unions than the guard :D ), so 10 is a good number.

Though I feel it should be bigger.  Warlord titans are about 50 to 0 meters tall, they should be able to carry quite a few men.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:23 pm 
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Okay, well I'm happy to increase its capacity to 10 units if everyone agrees that it's not unrealistic.

Thoughts as to how much the Corvus should cost?

I'm thinking probably Free.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:34 pm 
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In the original WD rules the Corvus Assault Pod (and Head) carries 4 infantry stands (not specified which exactly) and is equipped with a grade 2 (= 2 shots) Heavy Bolter.




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PlushWombat
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:41 pm 
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Why not use the stats for the Gorgan to represent the Corvus pod?

As to cost...probably no more the +25 pts.

After all, if you take the tracks off, plate the troop compartment overhead, and weld an arm on the back, a Gorgan would make a pretty good Corvus pod. :)

Next Question:

What about the Corvus Head...and by extenstion..all the other various titan variant heads? ?Should they be included in the list?

I'm inclined to say no...unless there is one generic upgrade like the current titan close combat weapon. ?That would retain the flavor without the needless overcomplexity.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:01 pm 
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What about the Corvus Head...and by extenstion..all the other various titan variant heads?  Should they be included in the list?


I am tempted to say that yes, Variant heads would be easy to work  into this system... and being as it is so very streamlined right now I don't think they would cause problems.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:28 pm 
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I only fear that variant heads would be a to common sight.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:54 pm 
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The Corvus Pod,alternate CC/FF weapons and variant heads Etc. could be used for a variant list.
We could get at least 5 different list's out of the old V2 titan legion list.
1) the War Gryphons,a kind of tactical list who are good/o.k. in most situations but not exceptional in any.A kind of all rounder army with limited support from tech guard etc.

2) A City Fight/ CC specialist list, an assault minded army with loads of variant combat weapons but very limited ranged weaponry ,especially long ranged stuff.These could have variant support choices more suitable to this style of army  such as jump troop Tech Guard.

3) A support specialist legion with more long ranged weaponry but limited short ranged/Assault weaponry.Again with variant support choices.

4) The Tech Guard with all their own specialist gear.

5) Knight World/Households list ,these having quality in their knights but very poor militia troops based on the siegemasters and lost and damned lists' poor quality troops.Giving them poor weaponry and static or slow moving support choices and maybe fortifications for defending their villages/towns etc. could represent an early medieval type of army .
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:40 am 
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I don't think there's a need to break the list down beyond 3 different strands, at least for the moment. :)

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dptdexys
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:53 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 16 2008,23:40)
QUOTE
I don't think there's a need to break the list down beyond 3 different strands, at least for the moment. :)

I agree that there's no need,but it shows there is the possibility that all those extra weapons not in this list may be used in other variant lists at a later time and we don't have to include every item now just because we could.
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nealhunt
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:43 pm 
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First and most important... internal balance between Reaver and Warlord is off.  With only 125 points difference, why would anyone ever take a Reaver?  For 125 points you get +2 DC, +2 void shields, and another weapon.  In other words...

+40% durability (33% more DC, 50% more shields)
+15-25% firepower  (free weapon v expected upgraded weapons)
+35-40% assault  (33% more DC, plus better CC)
for
+20% cost increase (at the most stripped down) and a minor loss in speed

The point differential only drops further if you have any sort of good weapons.  Who wouldn't buy that "upgrade" for a Reaver every single time?  The only time I would consider taking a Reaver would be if I could identify some sort of highly dedicated purpose that only required 3 weapon slots - an arty titan that doesn't anticipate needing the extra power to sit on the Blitz objective, or maybe an assault/CC titan that could make use of the extra 5cm move.

Any general purpose Reaver would be a waste of points.  This is pretty easy to see if you just compare something like a tank-hunting version  of each -

Reaver +2 Triple Turbos, +1 Plasma Cannon - 725 points
Warlord +3 Turbos, +1 Plasma Cannon - 825 points

Do I even need to compare these?  The Warlord is the better deal, hands down.  Identical ranged fire, 40% more durability, 35% better assault, less than 15% difference in price.  No contest.

The point difference in the chassis should be close to 200 points.  I'd start at ~175, even if that throws off the book titan configurations.

===

Corvus:  Transport 10 and 4 for the head would allow for up to 24 at max, which is a nice round number for all sorts of troop combos.

Triple Turbolaser:  Just to throw out another concept, rather than going with 6x shots, another option would be to go with the same idea as "twin-linked" and give them +1 to hit over the Double version.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:29 pm 
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With only 125 points difference, why would anyone ever take a Reaver?


I don't know why, but I took three warhounds, two Reavers and one Warlord in my first two games.

The point difference in the chassis should be close to 200 points.  I'd start at ~175, even if that throws off the book titan configurations.

Interestingly, under my old points costs formula mapped from Netepic, a basic Reaver with 3 missile launchers (The essential baseline for the v3 system) topped out at ~575pts rather than the 600pts of this system.

Although aware of that, I kept to the book prices.

I would note that I don't find the 5cm difference in speed unimportant... it certainly makes hitting the enemy's deployment zone on turn one easier, at the least.

Do I even need to compare these?  The Warlord is the better deal, hands down.  Identical ranged fire, 40% more durability, 35% better assault, less than 15% difference in price.  No contest.

You forgot Thick Rear Amour. :D

Personally, I don't think the niche of the Reaver is to be found in mounting expensive weapons, but in mounting lots of the cheaper weapons (For example, a 675pt Reaver Titan with 12 AT3+ / AT5+ attacks is more attractive to me than your 725pt Reaver).

Perhaps that's simply a consequence of the Reaver being comparatively overpriced however. :D


I'd start at ~175, even if that throws off the book titan configurations.

It certainly would. :(

Triple Turbolaser:  Just to throw out another concept, rather than going with 6x shots, another option would be to go with the same idea as "twin-linked" and give them +1 to hit over the Double version.

Not a terrible idea... I wanted to be forwards-compatable with any possible turbolaser upgrade for the Thunderhawk Gunship, where 2x AT3+ / AP5+ shots would seem to be more appropriate than 4x AT4+ / AP6+ (De-twin-linking, heh).

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: AMTL 3.08
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Make Reaver cheaper! :) (...So that it would not be so expensive compared to Warlord.)




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