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[NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Chroma

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:47 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

Okay, I've put together v8.1 based on the 8.0 preview and recent dicussions. I want this thing torn apart and shredded!

Here we go!

Special Rules changes.

Clumped the various Tyranid specific Special Rules into two main catagories.

Swarms

Synapse creatures now have a "Synape (x)" value which indicates how many Brood units they can control; multipe Synapse creature groups add this together and Brood creatures in excess ar lost.

Swarms that engage do not ignore normal coherency.

Unstoppable

GONE! - Replaced with "Relentless"

Please read the Relentless rule with a magnifying glass and get back to me with any spotted problems!

Mindless

New special ability.

Spawning

Synapse groups suffer a -1 to spawning points for each missing member, WE Synapse not affected by this.

Regeneration

Changed to a special ability that only specific war engines get.

Units changes:

FF5+ is the best that any Tyranid creature gets.

Dominatrix: a 6-6 crit does damage plus other stuff.

Both Bio-Titans have been reduced by 2DC, Hierophants are a bit cheaper, Hydraphants stay the same.

Lesser Nodes are more expensive and are "mindless".

Greater Nodes: 3DC, are more expensive and *drum roll* lose teleport.

Hierodules, changed to Brood (8), 125 points. Barbed gets CC4+ and "Thick Rear Armour", Scythed has Acid Spray *changed* to a +1 EA IC.

Malefactor's "Large Spine Banks" give +2EA at FF5+

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:47 pm

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My comments:

- Remove AA attack from Gargoyles, which'll force people to test and balance the spore mines.

- Hierophant should be DC-5 in my opinion. It's significantly larger and tougher than a Hierodule.

- Dominatrix should get an invulnerable save.

- Change Zoanthrope's armour save to 4+, as it has a very impressive save in 40k, as well as two wounds. Nudge points if nessesary.

That's it from me for the moment.

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Chroma

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:27 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 13 2007,16:47)

QUOTE

- Remove AA attack from Gargoyles, which'll force people to test and balance the spore mines.

What's stopping them from being tested now? ?Actually, no one really seems to be "testing" either type of AA at the moment.

- Hierophant should be DC-5 in my opinion. It's significantly larger and tougher than a Hierodule.

According to IAU 2005, Hierodules are T8 W5 Mass points 2

While Hierophants are T8 W5 Mass points 3. ?

Is that worth 2 more DC?

By the IA description, a Hierophant probably should also have invulnerable save and inspiring (The Horror and the Poisonous Spore Cloud), but I don't think we want to go there.

- ?Dominatrix should get an invulnerable save. I quite agree with this, but I'm not sure anyone else does.

- Change Zoanthrope's armour save to 4+, as it has a very impressive save in 40k, as well as two wounds. Nudge points if nessesary.
Zoanthropes have a RA5+, think that should be RA4+ or *just* 4+?

Thanks for the comments!

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:37 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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What's stopping them from being tested now? Actually, no one really seems to be "testing" either type of AA at the moment.

I've tested the spore mines in a few games, they seemed to work fine for me.

Is that worth 2 more DC?

I think it is, because:

By the IA description, a Hierophant probably should also have invulnerable save and inspiring (The Horror and the Poisonous Spore Cloud), but I don't think we want to go there.

It'd represent the better save a Hierophant has due to its 5+ Invulnerable Save in 40k.

Unless we can get an Invulnerable Save on our 4DC Hierophant... I'm happy either way.

Happier with the latter actually.

I quite agree with this, but I'm not sure anyone else does.

Push it through, it's needed.

Zoanthropes have a RA5+

*Smacks head*.

No wonder I think their armour sucks.

I've no problem with them having RA5+

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Chroma

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:39 pm

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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 13 2007,17:37)

QUOTE

I've tested the spore mines in a few games, they seemed to work fine for me.

And where, exactly, have all these battle reports been posted? Hmmmm? HMMMMM? :;):

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Hojyn

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:43 pm

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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
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Location: Brest - France

(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 13 2007,16:47)

QUOTE

- Remove AA attack from Gargoyles, which'll force people to test and balance the spore mines.

- Hierophant should be DC-5 in my opinion. It's significantly larger and tougher than a Hierodule.

- ?Dominatrix should get an invulnerable save.

I agree on all of this.

Oh, and an Invulnerable Save on a DC4 Hierophant would be nice too, by the way.

Edit : And I'd remove the nodes completely, or remove the LSN and make the GSN 0-1 (and perhaps tougher, too).

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Hojyn

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:01 pm

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Location: Brest - France

(Hena @ Jun. 13 2007,17:46)

QUOTE

And please keep the name unstoppable.

Well, technically, with the new rule, Nids are no longer "unstoppable".

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ragnarok

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:15 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England

I have only had a quick glance at the new stuff.

I like the DC4 Heirophant, any chance of it gaining fearless? It is easier to kill on the way in, so should have a bit more staying power once it hits the enemy.

I also like the new relentless, mindless and synapse rules. However a few questions.

1) Do transported units count towards the synapse limit of harridans and vituperators?

I can see arguments for both sides, but I assume that they don't

2)Why is there an activation penalty on mindless swarms?

A failed activation doesn't matter to them they will still hold. All it will do is make it harder for them to prep an assault for a retain assault.

I say either get rid of the -2 to activate or the can only hold. Mindless nids still know how to fire their bio-weapons or eat someone/thing. Their problem is doing it as a group.

An idea I've had is the following

Mindless formations may always choose to hold. If they choose to do this they automatically pass their activation test. However if the formation wishes to make a different type of action then it must pass an imitative test with a -2 modifier (in addition to any other modifiers the have). If the test is passed then they act normally. If it is failed then the swarm loses D6 INF, AV or LV units chosen by the opponent. It can be assumed that these units ran off without the rest of the formation or got accidentally trodden on/eaten.

In addition no reroll of any kind may be used on the activation test.

3) Is the -2 to activate for mindless formation in addition to normal modifiers or instead of? Gotta be careful with rules lawyers around.

Oh and where are the winged warriors?

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:27 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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If it is failed then the swarm loses D6 INF, AV or LV units chosen by the opponent.

Nope.

Anything 'chosen by opponent' is inherently gamey.

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Chroma

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:36 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(ragnarok @ Jun. 13 2007,19:15)

QUOTE

I like the DC4 Heirophant, any chance of it gaining fearless? ?It is easier to kill on the way in, so should have a bit more staying power once it hits the enemy.

I'm thinking about this, going to see how they do on the field without it first, then see if they need upgrading/downgrading.

1) Do transported units count towards the synapse limit of harridans and vituperators?

They would only count if they are part of the specific creature's swarm, so a transported Hive Tyrant and its Broods wouldn't count, but if a Vituperator was carrying a bunch of Raveners for itself, they would.

2)Why is there an activation penalty on mindless swarms?
It's mainly there to impede spawning in the end phase for swarms that have been driven mindless; mirrors the -2 to Rally for broken formations.

As well, it make mindless formations less reliable for retaining the initiative and such. ?They can still more or shoot, just not engage, so they aren't completely useless... just not well directed! ?*laugh*

3) Is the -2 to activate for mindless formation in addition to normal modifiers or instead of? ?Gotta be careful with rules lawyers around. I believe all modifiers are cumulative in EPIC unless otherwise noted, but I can specify that as well.

Oh and where are the winged warriors?They flew away a while ago, they were causing a lot of problems. ?I'll revisit them again some day, but not for a while.

Thanks for the comments!

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ragnarok

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:36 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England

(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 13 2007,19:27)

QUOTE

If it is failed then the swarm loses D6 INF, AV or LV units chosen by the opponent.

Nope.

Anything 'chosen by opponent' is inherently gamey.

I would prefer random, but I don't know how random can be used in epic

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Chroma

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:37 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(ragnarok @ Jun. 13 2007,19:15)

QUOTE

[i]Mindless formations may always choose to hold. ?If they choose to do this they automatically pass their activation test. ?However if the formation wishes to make a different type of action then it must pass an imitative test with a -2 modifier (in addition to any other modifiers the have). ?If the test is passed then they act normally. ?If it is failed then the swarm loses D6 INF, AV or LV units chosen by the opponent. ?It can be assumed that these units ran off without the rest of the formation or got accidentally trodden on/eaten.

It's interesting and flavourful, but I think it might be a bit too fiddly.

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Chroma

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:10 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(Hena @ Jun. 13 2007,17:46)

QUOTE

Also Hydraphant should lose the warp blast as with distinction between that and Dominatrix is in the list, there is no reason for it to be there. Perhaps add Ripper Tentacles instead +2EA (to balance the lost 2 dice due DC).

The Hydraphant has lost the Warp Blast. ?Nothing replacing it yet, we'll see how it does on the field.

Synapse 8 to warriors and 26 to Dominatrix. But I think that this could be removed due to unstoppable changes.

Well, with Synapse (8), that's still a 27 unit swarm which is heading towards the "living fence" size. ?Give this a try and see if it's too limiting.

I really want to see how it affects Neal's group's play!

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Zzzap

Post subject: [NEW!] Tyranids Version 8.1

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:14 pm

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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 86
Location: Brentwood, TN

(Chroma @ Jun. 13 2007,15:47)

QUOTE

Okay, I've put together v8.1 based on the 8.0 preview and recent dicussions. I want this thing torn apart and shredded!

We'll start shredding here in our group.

But I also want you to know you are doing an incredible job pushing ahead with fixes, revamps and fairly major changes. Keeping the whole process moving forward.

Kudos!

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