Tactical Command
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[Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9574		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Chroma [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency
Neal has brought up the concepts of area control/denial and the easy of which Tyranids can spread out to accomplish this and the difficulty of finding an effective counter to it.

What would people think of requiring that members of a multi-creature Synapse Group had to maintain 5cm coherency with each other, with the Broods having to maintain Synapse and regular coherency?  I initially thought about requiring them to maintain, at least, Synapse coherency, but they could still string out quite a bit.

Forcing them to maintain normal, 5cm coherency, would certainly prevent swarms from becoming too diffuse and spread out, dominating vast swaths of territory.

So, your responses?
Author:  Chroma [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency
So, no responses to this suggestion at all?  Is it that good... or tha bad?  *laugh*
Author:  Chroma [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency

(Hena @ Jun. 03 2007,15:00)
QUOTE
Perhaps make synapse group to be within each other synapse range? This would allow max size of 60cm for a Nexus and Warrior groups (instead of 90cm). But would it be more complicated than worth ... I dunno.

Well, I'm looking to try and cut off the "living fence" tactic before it gets out of hand, and this seems an obvious fix.

It's implied that Synapse creatues do need to be in synapse coherency of each other, but it's not well defined, so that's what gave me the idea to make it more concrete.
Author:  Zzzap [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency
Interesting...It would constrain the "living fence" a bit.

It would also tend to bring more tyranid warriors under blast templates more often.

It would help but not really solve the area denial problem. Area denial is more a function of the fact that Tyranid cannot be broken and thus do not suffer any of the ill effects of being broken. Ultimately without being broken they can only be moved back by an opponent about 15 cm.

(At least now your conversation thread has another participant)
Author:  Hojyn [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency
The problem seems to be with the monstrous size Tyranid swarms can reach, so quoting myself (yes, I'm like that ?:p ) from another thread:

Hmm, just a thought here : if big swarms really are that much of a problem (and I can well believe that they are), how about modifying the whole "synapse range" rule like this :

- All synapse groups are given a certain number of "brood points" and may control a maximum number of brood creatures based on these "brood points" (for example, an Assault Group would get 15 "brood points" to spend, meaning they could control up to 15 points worth of brood creatures - i.e. 15 Termagants OR 10 Raveners (2 points each) and 5 Termagants OR 3 Exocrines (5 points each), etc.)

- Then, either remove the "brood creatures must stay within 15 cm of synapse creatures" rule and apply normal coherency rules... or leave it as is if you want to further limit the zone of control of each formation.

This would obviously require lots of playtesting to get the numbers right, but it could possibly help balance the list by limiting the max size of each formation.

This would perhaps have consequences I'm not aware of, but it would probably limit the area denial tactic described by Neal.
Author:  Chroma [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency

(Hena @ Jun. 03 2007,16:53)
QUOTE
So the synapse values would be back (for individual units or groups)...

Possibly, but they would need to rather large as Tyranids are supposed to be a "horde of claw and teeth". So we certainly shouldn't cut on that very much.

Okay, do we feel that a "maximum swarm size" is necessary?  Too me, it feels a little arbitrary, but that might be necessary for mutually satisfying game play.

I'd prefer some other mechanism, but I'm always willing to entertain suggestions.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency
Okay, do we feel that a "maximum swarm size" is necessary?

I don't think it's nessesary.
Author:  Markconz [ Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency

(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 03 2007,16:26)
QUOTE
Okay, do we feel that a "maximum swarm size" is necessary?


I don't think it's nessesary.
Neither do I.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency

(Chroma @ Jun. 03 2007,17:02)
QUOTE
Okay, do we feel that a "maximum swarm size" is necessary?  Too me, it feels a little arbitrary, but that might be necessary for mutually satisfying game play.

I'd prefer some other mechanism, but I'm always willing to entertain suggestions.

I don't think an arbitrary limit is necessary, either.

If you force Synapse groups to maintain normal, 5cm coherency with each other, that limits the swarms in two respects.

1)  It stops a huge fence formation.  Max width is technically 90cm w/3 synapse if you need that much distance at the end of a game.  For most of the game it's  more like 60-75cm for practical purposes as you need slack in case something bad happens to a synapse.  With 5cm synapse creature coherency, that shrinks to ~40cm.

2)  The limited area provides some mitigation to huge, incredibly tough Nid formations through some additional vulnerability to template weapons.

To me, point #1 is much more important.

In our experience, the vulnerability to templates in #2 is not a big deal.  I've seen swarms get close to 20 targets (I think 17 was the max in our game Friday night) under 2 MW barrage templates and still be a serious threat.  Nonetheless, it provides a limiting factor based not on a defined swarm size but on the Nid player's perception of cost/benefit.  Letting the player control their choice of strategy is always preferable.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Synapse Group creature coherency
I like the idea of 5cm synapse coherency.
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