Tactical Command
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[Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9505		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Chroma [ Tue May 22, 2007 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
The inclusion of the "flamer" template has been causing quite a bit of discussion, both here and on the Specialist site.  I believe the main point of contention is how to deal with formations with multiple "flamer" weapons: overlap vs non-overlap, etc.  Personally, I think the "flamer template" should've been included in the core rules originally, my thought that it should use the "Barrage Table", but as an "alternate shape" template with shorter range.  Everything else would be just like current barrage use.

Currently, there's no way to have multiple flamer templates in the Tyranid list.  Three units have a Bio-Plasma Breath weapon that uses this template: Dominatrix, Hydraphant, and Vituperator.

One alternate suggestion to flamer template use is using short range, 15cm, BP weapons to represent them.  This gives essentially the same range of attack as the flamer template, uses established rules, and eliminates a special rule.  

With the experimentat MW Barrage rules, a 2 BP weapon would give the same to-hit values as the current flamer weapon.

So, the discussion is, do people think we should stay with the flamer template or convert them over to barrage weapons?  For the Dom and Hydra, this is an easy switch, but the Vituperator would need some other tweaking as it already has a non-MW barrage attack.

So, thoughts?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue May 22, 2007 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
*Deep breath*

I agree with Hena.
Author:  Chroma [ Tue May 22, 2007 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage

(Evil and Chaos @ May 22 2007,23:15)
QUOTE
*Deep breath*

I agree with Hena.

*LAUGH*

Well, I don't think the flame template is a huge problem for the Tyranid list, as it only shows up as a single unit weapon, so the multiple template thing doesn't come up.

I agree that it should be dealt with in a "core rule" situation, just curious as to people's thoughts about it becoming a BP weapon.

So, I guess I agree with Hena as well!
Author:  Pulsar [ Wed May 23, 2007 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
i think that it should use an exitsing rule such as the BP table, mainly because it's a easy fix to the problem.
and so i agree with Hena too.
Author:  thurse [ Wed May 23, 2007 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
Hi!
I have no problems replacing flame templates rules by standard barrage rules.

I don't think flame templates bring something really important to the rules, but I understand that some players can consider it fun.

So, it's more a cosmetic choice for me. As I play more often against nids than with them, I'll let others chooses
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed May 23, 2007 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
I think the Nid list needs to go to BP because the flamer template is huge.  It may be short ranged, but it covers almost the same area as 2 barrage templates.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed May 23, 2007 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
Why would you have to worry about units between you and the target?

If the Nids are firing, it's their action. Anything with a flame template is a WE and can be picked out of the formation via targetting so very few units matter with respect to arranging the formation.  Just place them so you have a clear field of fire.  It only takes a narrow corridor.

It's not like you're ever going to Sustain Fire with it so you can't move.  If the enemy's that close you're going to assault.  The only time you might possibly need to shoot over a friendly without moving to rearrange would be with a Hold action.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed May 23, 2007 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
Barrage.

But then again I dislike the teardrop template for scaling and other reasons.
Author:  Hojyn [ Wed May 23, 2007 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
Barrage looks like the most simple solution and as Thurse said, the flame template is fun but mainly a cosmetic choice.

Barrage gets my vote.
Author:  Blarg D Impaler [ Wed May 23, 2007 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
While the discussion pretty much boils down to cosmetic and aesthetic differences, when you have a 15cm ranged BP weapon you might as well make it a flamer template or just simply portray the attack as extra FF attacks.  

What is the purpose of having a 15cm ranged BP attack?  It is either to have it be a fun addition to the stats as a flamer attack or to have it contribute to firefights.  Keeping it as a short-ranged standard barrage weapon seems rather pointless to me.  Either have fun with it as a flamer template or just abstract it into FF ability.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Fri May 25, 2007 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
I like the template it's fun, easy to use, fluffy and fits well with Nids being different to everything else. I think that to combat the multiple templates problem simply put a line in its description stating that multiple templates have no further effect or that units hit by multiples only get hit once etc etc. - there's only so much burning death a target can take! :D It's simple and effective.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri May 25, 2007 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Breath Weapons - Flamer or Barrage
put a line in its description stating that multiple templates have no further effect or that units hit by multiples only get hit once etc etc

As has been discussed elsewhere, many think that that's an overly-harsh penalty on flame weapons, since BP weapons get other benefits to compensate for not being able to overlap (Extra BM's, better to-hit values etc).
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