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Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:36 pm 
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I was having a chat with my brother this evening, and this is how his fresh eyes saw the problem of getting an in-theme AA solution into the Tyranid army.

Basically he came at it from the perspective of 'no more special rules'.


Independent Formation (xx points)

A formation of 3 Meotic Spore Mines.

Speed 5cm
Each has one AA5+ attack (Range 20cm).
Each has Ignore Cover for its small-arms attack.
5+ armour save.



Essentially, what you get is a small group of Spores that look visually appealing, and also fill a hole in the 'Nid list.

The 5cm move also prevents the whole 'how do they move' debate.


What'cha reckon?




We also chatted about the Zoanthrope a little and came up with:

Zoanthrope - 35pts
Warp Attack - AP3+, range 20cm.
Firefight Warp Attack - MW4+



This comes from the fact that in 40k, a Zoanthrope has two strengths of psychic attack, either a long-range medium strength (S5 AP3) attack, or a shorter range high- strength (S10 AP2) attack.

Thus you get a short ranged AP attack, which goes up to MW in firefight (Thus also filling a unique niche).




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Pulsar
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:57 pm 
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as usual the Ho-Boe has a good Gaming ideas/perspective!!!  :laugh: :)

it sounds good.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:23 am 
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Like the Zoanthrope idea E&C.
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Charad
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:30 am 
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Stats seem fine, especially the zoanthrope. :)  But I dislike idea of having more small formations for nids, because unstoppable makes them so annoying.

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Soren
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:27 am 
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MW 4+ means it better than a Multimelter against tanks, which is not rally the cause I think. AP3 is better than a heavy bolter or even assault cannon(!), also seems overpowered.

Tyras already have plenty of MW and TK CC attacks, they do not need them shooty again, especially in FF. I have no problem with a FF4+ for this little guy, but MW4+ FF is way too much.


my 0.02 cent

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:34 am 
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I like the MW FF of the thropes.  It helps to fill a hole in the list, the ability to easily take down skimmers.

Also since an engagement represents an entire game of 40K the MW stat can easily represent it using the S5 AP3 blast against infantry and popping the odd tank with the S10 AP2 focused blast.

I might drop its FF down to 5+ though, they are only BS3.

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Charad
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:46 am 
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sounds better, FF5+. I like macro FF attack for zoan.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:07 am 
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Ageed, 5+ MW FF for the Zoanthrope sounds good.

The AP shot looks too accurate though, do we really want 'thropes to be hitting on a 2+ on a sustain? I would rather see it dropped to 20cm AP 4+.

The spores I am not so sure about - I think we need to playtest the immovable ones more before dismissing them.

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Soren
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:13 am 
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A CC Armay may have a problems to bring down skimmer (but you already can shoot them down anyway). I don?t see problems  here. Every list should have it?s weaknesses and strenghtes. I?m not a friend of filling all holes until the holes make the list unplayable (which is not the case here)




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:35 am 
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(Soren @ Mar. 30 2007,09:13)
QUOTE
A CC Armay may have a problems to bring down skimmer (but you already can shoot them down anyway). I don?t see problems  here. Every list should have it?s weaknesses and strenghtes. I?m not a friend of filling all holes until the holes make the list unplayable (which is not the case here)

I'm not trying to fill any holes that don't already have a counterpart lump of putty in 40k... :)


I could see mw5+ Firefight and AP4+ 20cm for the Zoanthrope.

The Zoanthrope is better than a Heavy Bolter in 40k by the way, it slices through Power Armour with ease, using S5 AP3 blast templates... often that's four hits, four kills.

With a Heavy Bolter you might get two or three hits, then the Marine player gets to take armour saves...

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:39 am 
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(Hena @ Mar. 30 2007,07:48)
QUOTE
I don't agree on spores. They allow more small activations which isn't a good thing. Also I don't think that the clouds should be destroyed. And you can now double them (10cm) to move them around, which I don't like either.

Then change the number of models in a spore formation to 6, and give them each an AA6+ attack.

10cm isn't really very far, certainly within the limits of how far wind / synapse might make them drift over the course of 15 minutes.

I think spore coulds should be destroyable for several reasons, from fluff to game balance (Apart from anything else invincible spore clouds are untouchable victory points... you should care about a game mechanics reason like that Hena! :D).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:36 am 
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All in all the single spore which can be killed doesn't have the same feel as a huge cloud of things, which killing would take too long for a single game.


I think six spores in a little cloud will make a good compromise.

How many Acid Spore Mines come in a blister pack?

Six. :D




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Markconz
 Post subject: Zoanthropes & Spore Mines
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:34 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 30 2007,10:36)
QUOTE
I think six spores in a little cloud will make a good compromise.

How many Acid Spore Mines come in a blister pack?

Six. :D

Lol!  :D

Interesting ideas. What about standard ranges rather than 20cm though (15cm, possibly 30 for zoanthrope...(?)).  Hena mentioned why this was a good idea in another thread IIRC(?).

For zoanthrope how about just 5+ MW, FF5+ MW?  As you say in 40k they can blast through armour nicely (if they hit which is usually the problem...). (BTW remember that the template is blast not ordinance, which makes it unlikely it will kill more than 1-2 models (unless they are clumped due to teleporting or something).)

Should those spores have scout maybe? Actually no I don't think they should as that would give that big ZOC...

Spores come 2 frag, 2 acid, 2 toxin to a pack... though its all the same for our purposes.  :)

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