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[Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
The Brood swarm should be removed as soon as they lose their Synapse creature(s). 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
The Brood swarm should be removed after any "move" portion of an action, but are not required to take an action with a "move". 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
The Brood swarm should be able to act normally until Synapse Control is checked in the next turn (Engage "go-to-ground" still applies). 33%  33%  [ 6 ]
The Brood swarm must attempt a March action towards the nearest Synapse Group, with Synapse Control checked next turn. 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
The Brood swarm must take an action that includes a move towards the nearest Synapse Group, with Synapse Control checked next turn. 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Something else. (Explained below.) 33%  33%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 18

[Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:17 pm 
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There are times that a swarm's Synapse Creature is killed before the swarm has acted, leaving the Brood creatures somewhat stranded as they are now out of "Synapse Control". ?In the event of an Engage action, the rules currently state that they will all "go-to-ground" and be removed, but what about in other situations?

Please review the options above and then discuss below.

(And let me know if I missed any obvious options!)

P.S. Thanks for the phrase "Synapse Control", Lightbringer!




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:24 pm 
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The next action they are able to move should be automatically an march action towards the nearest synapse creature.
Not next turn, but in the turn they loose their synapse.
If they fail their actiontest they simpy disperse and "go to ground".

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ragnarok
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:23 pm 
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I voted something else.  This time my something else is option three, but witht he whole going to ground after an engage is removed.

Going to ground after an engage adds another synpase check that needs to be done (and against annoying opponents can take more time than all the dice rolling in the end phase that Hena hate), which is menaning less.  Since the swarm is checked again at the start of the next turn anyway.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:21 pm 
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I voted for 'act normally without Synapse, check next turn'. My only other suggestion would be to make some penalty on the activation check. Probably not worse then 1 point of penalty. This seems to keep in the idea that without synapse they tend to fall apart, but they're not going to fall apart instantly.
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Dobbsy
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:34 pm 
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I voted "something else" - a hold action - the onus should be on the Synapse creatures to collect them as they mill about before going to ground.
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Markconz
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:32 am 
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-2 to activation test.

No other effects.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:29 pm 
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what about a -2 to activation test like Markconz said but until Synapse control is restored the unit can take BM as normal and if enough are taken to brake the unit it's destroyed?

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:38 pm 
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(Pulsar @ Mar. 14 2007,12:29)
QUOTE
what about a -2 to activation test like Markconz said but until Synapse control is restored the unit can take BM as normal and if enough are taken to brake the unit it's destroyed?

While perhaps a full reflection of what would happen in "real life", I'd like to try to keep this concept within the scope of one word: simplicity.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:45 pm 
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(Chroma @ Mar. 14 2007,12:38)
QUOTE
While perhaps a full reflection of what would happen in "real life", I'd like to try to keep this concept within the scope of one word: simplicity.

:D yah, now i've thought about it abit, that was a bit of a ramdom idea to put out there  :laugh:

maybe i should use a concept that the the guys on bits of Warseer should be using: "think before you Post!"  :)

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:03 pm 
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I voted for option 3.

I invest a lot of points in my swarms and the idea that some lucky sniper can effectively remove an entire swarm with a luck shot against my Hive Tyrant appalls me! I want a chance to be able to either have my synapse-less broods charge headlong into the enemy or to march to safety or to double and fire - I want it to be my choice. If they have not managed to find a new synapse creature by the time the next checks come along then off they go but I would like some input as to what they can do.

I can't agree with Ragnarok on the going to ground thing though - checking for synapse range takes no time at all and not one of my opponents has commented on the supposed inconvenience this is meant to cause.

I say keep it as simple as possible - think of synapseless broods as already having clear instuctions fixed in their little minds for the current turn but that without a new synapse they simply won't know what to do the next (and therefore go to ground unless they find a new synapse).

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:18 pm 
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Check for Synapse Coherency at all the same times as normal coherency checks - at the end of every move.

Check for Synapse Coherency when swarms are determined at the beginning of the turn.

===

It's simple and straightforward in implementation.  That combo would put a swarm that lost its Synpase in grave danger of disintegrating and hinder its activation during the turn (which everyone seems to agree is reasonable).  However, it would not automatically destroy it.  The Nid player would be able to take steps to re-integrate the broods into another swarm by moving up a new Synapse to take over the confused little beasties.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:33 pm 
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Note that Tyranids out of Synapse range in 40k behave quite differently to Epic's mechanism.


In Epic terms, a swarm without a Synapse creature would only be able to:

- Take an inititive roll (Probably on a 5+). If passed the formation may take orders normally.

- If failed, then the formation may elect either to Lurk (Gamewise a Hold action where the Tyranid player elects to remain stationary and fire) or to Fall back (Gamewise a March action towards the nearest Synapse creature)



What do you think guys, can this simple mechanism* be integrated into Epic in order to bring greater commonality?


Brood creatures would still go to ground when out of range of Synapse at the begining of each turn as they do currently.


*Basically applying a -3 to activation rolls for swarms that don't currently have a Synapse creature, with only two order types (Hold and shoot or March towards nearest Synapse) available if activation is failed.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:44 pm 
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Hena - your proposal is simple enough but the 'at the end of evey move' thing simply encourages synapseless swarms to hold or to sustain fire, therefore not making a move and not having to make any checks.

Either we are looking at encouraging swarms to move towards getting back into synapse control or we are not. Your proposal would often mean a swarm would be better off standing still and waiting for a rescue synapse. Of course if no rescue synapse turns up then the swarm goes to ground at the beginning of next turn anyway so you would be taking a risk by holding a synapseless swarm but it would allow you to leave them there whilst the rest of the turn unfolded leaving you with the option of trying to rescue them later in the turn (or not).

Did I just type a load of waffle? :O

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ragnarok
 Post subject: [Discussion] How should Synapse-less Broods act?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:09 pm 
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After rereading section T1.1.2  I'm left wondering if I have read it wrong.

By my reconning.  If a swarm that should have a synapse doesn't then as soon as it has made its first move (such as the first one of three of a march) then it will go to ground immediatly.

Similiarly, if a tyrant led brood doubles though a wood and on the first move the tyrant runs into a tree, then the entire brood goes to ground before the second move starts

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