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War Engines
Markconz
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:29 am 
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I don't like the '1 does nothing' result, or the '6 kills' result.  I actually like the removal of regeneration, or maybe some sort of 'gravely injured' critical where you keep losing biomass through haemoraging until a successful regeneration rule.

Also remember Jervis's consistency rule. eg rounding should always be the same direction across all rules.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:07 am 
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Is book keeping really an issue how many multiple DC creatures do you realistically field in a Tyranid Army?

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:29 am 
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I agree with Hena on the 2DC war engines.

For the bigger boys how about

critical effect, roll d6:

1-2: severe limb damage, deduct 5cm from movement
3-5: vital organ pierced, bleeding wound (treat as gargant fire)
6: head shot, creature staggers 2d6 in a random direction trampling all underfoot (hit on 6 if contacted) then dies.


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maruma
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:36 pm 
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I'm always questionable about "Head shot" for bigger titans.
Because...

* Some insects can live without head (at leaset some period)
  And nids Titans are "Super Insects".

* "Regenerating Carnifex head" of 40k model has naked skull.
  Fex with regenerate can live even if their half of face is blown off.
  You can not kill them "Head shot!" by sniper rifles in games.
  Then, I think Hydras survive even if they lose their half of face by Las cannon shots etc...

So I oppose to second critical roll for instant death check.

Of course, if you make "head shot" with Deathstrike missile, Hydra may instantly death. But  it is just TK 6 damage with some critical.

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critical effect, roll d6:

1-2: severe limb damage, deduct 5cm from movement
3-5: vital organ pierced, bleeding wound (treat as gargant fire)
6: head shot, creature staggers 2d6 in a random direction trampling all underfoot (hit on 6 if contacted) then dies.


I feel it is slightly too complicated.
We need "leg wound" and  "bleeding" couters (or note and pen) and scatter dice for each nid games.

I don't like second critical rolls or critical tables.
Epic is simple, and simple is the best.
(So I don't love Battle titan's critical so much. But at least it has thrill to explode and tactical choices. Fun.)

Oh, but this is just my opinion.
Game balance is more important than "reality " or fluff.
So I'll play my first nid game under the major idea of critical :)

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ragnarok
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:55 pm 
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I'm not a fan of head-shots on biotitans (they don't have any brains to blow out).

what about for all DC4+ creatures criticals cause a bleeding wound.

In the end phase when the WE it can either regain lost DC or heal a bleeding wound, or a mixture of both.

Any bleeding wounds not healed cause an extra point of damage.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:58 pm 
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Okay - here's a simpler version then

Critical Table for Bio-Titans (3DC or greater)

1-4 - lose 1 DC
5-6 - lose 1 DC AND suffer a bleeding wound (use gargant fire rules)

The gargant fire rules are not that hard to manage and would represent a huge gaping wound with bug blood pouring from it - roll in the end phase to see if the wound heals over - if not suffer an additional DC.

You just need to keep a track of the bleeding wounds using the pips on a die (or beans or whatever). If an Ork commander can manage fires we can manage bleeding wounds.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:07 pm 
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(Hena @ Mar. 07 2007,11:59)
QUOTE
I rather like the 6 kills critical. It makes them unpredictable and "soft".

You've never met a bio-titan have you?

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Markconz
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:17 pm 
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The trouble with gargant fires is that it is not just something you have to remember (like imperial reactors, or eldar holofields), but it often has a numerical value to keep track of as well. I would like something which is kind of similar in scope to the imperial and eldar titans, but which doesn't require mulltiple things to keep track of like gargant fires (which is annoying). Preferably I'd like something that doesn't require any record keeping at all if that is possible.

Ideally I'd like some sort of open ended system which has more entertainment value and is not as dichotomous as the current system. Eg for the 3 large bio-titans how is this (wording still needing some work)?

Critical Hit Effect. The Dominatrix is critically wounded. Roll a D6, on a 1 it thrashes about wildly in blind rage and any unit within D6 cm is hit on a 5+. On a 2-4 it gushes ichor from a deep wound and loses another DC. On a 5-6 it suffers major hemorrhaging and loses D3 DC, plus it must immediately roll again and apply the results of another critical effect as repair symbiotes struggle to contain the damage.

This provides a kind of exponential scale of damage and a 'wounded and enraged' effect, rather than the dichotomous 'almost no effect' or 'dead' that the current results give. Chances of dying outright are less, but chances of suffering more damage in other ways are greater.

How attached are people to the 'killing the synapse' idea for the dominatrix? Is it necessary?

(By the way the wording and feel is basically stolen from previous editions of epic, while the amount of text and range of effects is comparable to other races major titans.)

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: War Engines
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:39 pm 
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Okay - if we are rejecting the "bleeding wound" idea then we probably do need something more colouful and Marconz's suggestion is a good starting point....

Critical Hit Effect. The (insert name of bio-titan) is critically wounded. Roll a D6, on a 1-2 it thrashes about wildly in blind rage and any unit within D6 cm is hit on a 5+ (normal saves?). On a 3-5 it gushes ichor from a deep wound and loses another DC. On a 6 it suffers major hemorrhaging and loses D3 DC.

Also - if it is the Dominatrix that is criticalled we add add the lose Supreme Commander (and Synapse?) to the 5-6 outcome?

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