Tactical Command
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[Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8765		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures
This will be a thread detailing "defensive" Tyranids structures and rules for use in scenarios such as "Assault" and "Hit and Run".

Static or slow moving things like Meiotic Spore Clouds, Brood Hives, infested terrain and other ideas will be presented.

Please bear with me as I get my thoughts and ideas in order. ?Thanks!
Author:  Chroma [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures
Okay, I was finally able to put this together, please take a look and let me know what you think!

As well, are there any other "Tyranid Structures" that you think should be represented?
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures
I like this idea on a conceptual basis.  It has the potential to solve several issues with the list in one fell swoop.

I'm slammed the rest of this week but I'll try to give it a review.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures

(nealhunt @ Mar. 07 2007,22:39)
QUOTE
I'm slammed the rest of this week but I'll try to give it a review.

Thanks Neal!

Take a look at your leisure and I look forward to your comments.
Author:  Markconz [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures
Interesting at first glance, though we still really dislike 'Titan Killer' ability on Spore Mines. They shouldn't be that good.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures

(Hena @ Mar. 08 2007,07:37)
QUOTE
Drifting. I'd leave this off. It's additional thing to do at the end phase and slowing things down.


The drifiting is just to make them a little unpredictable, especially with enemy pilots flying "near" them, to bypass them, and suddenly they're caught!  I like that as it gives the cloud a more amorphous feeling.

Brood. I see problems in this at two levels. One it breaks the normal spawning as you can make new "units" that you haven't bought (or you have to wait until one drifts out and then spawn one I'm not quite sure which is the intention).
How does it allow you to make "new" units?  You have to purchase everything first before you can spawn it.  You have to wait until one goes away to bring it back or keep ones in your "spawning pool" and not deploy them at the start of the game like normal.
Two, I can't see a reason how they would appear to a coherent cloud around the synapse creatures anywhere on the board. If there were that much of them around, then planes would have problems in anywhere on the table.
Well, various spores might be floating around.  According to E&C Synapse creatures can "call them together" as they are not completely random movers.  The spawning just represents a local increase in Meiotic Spore Cloud density.

In "reality" the entire battlefied would have these things floating over them, but I think that's a bit excessive in game.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures

(Hena @ Mar. 08 2007,07:39)
QUOTE
Also in general, I'd like to see these in the Tyranid Categories (synapse, independent, uncommon brood).

Have you read the "Assault" scenario, Hena?

The defender gets a secondary points pool that allows them to purchase items from a "Fortifications" list, and that's exactly what this is, but for Tyranids, so it doesn't fit into the catagories of the pure Tournament army list set up.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures

(Markconz @ Mar. 08 2007,03:20)
QUOTE
Interesting at first glance, though we still really dislike 'Titan Killer' ability on Spore Mines. They shouldn't be that good.

I think it's a matter of perspective, and saying it's "Titan Killer" just "sensationalizes" the ability.

It's a 1-in-6 chance of taking out an aircraft; with mucus and spores and acid, it might not be actually *destroying* the aircraft, but it could certainly render an aircraft combat ineffective.

How about adding "Aircraft may make a jink save against the effects of Meiotic Spore Clouds."?
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures

(Hena @ Mar. 08 2007,12:24)
QUOTE
I have. But IMO it would be better to use the Tyranid Structure for this as well. Otherwise you are allowing "extra sections" (as in that 25% is counted in max points from which the 33% groups are taken, but not spent in any of those groups). of synapse and others as there is suddendly 5th group to stick points into.

That's not how the Assault scenario works.

If you're playing "Defender has 2000 points" the points break down like this:

Defender
Army Points  - 2000
Fortifications - 500

Attacker
Army Points - 3000

The "+25%" are *bonus* points that can only be spent on Fortifications, it has no effect on the base points available for buying the army, they are seperate points pools.
Author:  Markconz [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures

(Chroma @ Mar. 08 2007,11:22)
QUOTE

(Markconz @ Mar. 08 2007,03:20)
QUOTE
Interesting at first glance, though we still really dislike 'Titan Killer' ability on Spore Mines. They shouldn't be that good.

I think it's a matter of perspective, and saying it's "Titan Killer" just "sensationalizes" the ability.

Nonsense, it just accurately describes the effect of a weapon, to allow comparison with other epic weapons.
Saying it is not Titan Killer is like saying a super zzap gun isn't 'titan killer' its 'zzap'! Meaningless arguing over semantics. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!

I see absolutely no justification for giving spore mines such an exceptional ability given their fluff, existing rules and conventions, or game balance. Make it an AA attack and give an armour save.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Tyranid Defensive Structures

(Markconz @ Mar. 08 2007,13:59)
QUOTE
Saying it is not Titan Killer is like saying a super zzap gun isn't 'titan killer' its 'zzap'! Meaningless arguing over semantics. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck!

So you would classify barbed wire emplacements and minefields as Titan Killer areas as well?  To me calling them TK makes them sound much more terrifying than a 1-in-6 chance of a hit.  Supa-zapp guns hit on a, base 3+... that's a lot better.

The Meiotic Spore Cloud simply mirrors the rule for minefields presented in the Assault scenario: making an "air" area dangerous terrain for aircraft.  It's a 15cm radius of "danger"; it's avoidable and has a 1-in-6 chance of going away at the end of a turn.

How is it so overpowered?  In the past few Tyranid battle reports aircraft have barely featured, so any points spent on AA would be, basically, wasted.

Taken as a whole, the list of Tyranid Fortifications leaves the Tyranid player with tough choices.  And that's good.
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