Tactical Command
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[Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8707		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:27 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
Hena's update threads brought the Carnifex back to the debate table and it's definitely something that should be discussed.

Currently we've got the Screamer-Killer (close combat) and Venomspitter (shooting).

The 40k Codex allows for a lot of variability in Carnifex builds, so how much of that should be expressed in EPIC? ?Do people use both? ?Only one? ?Or none at all? ?Do people feel the 35 points if appropriate? ?Has anyone actually converted a Venomspitter?  Are there any other "types" of Carnifex that people think are important?

Please expound on the choice you make above.
Author:  Markconz [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
IIRC I was responsible for the original splitting of fex genuses in Epic, and suggested the name 'Venomfex' to represent a common 40k variant at the time. There were 3 separate motivations:

1. Perhaps a slightly misguided attempt to try and replicate 40k detail in Epic, rather than going for an 'average' fex.  Ie SM have 'average' squads (tho on the other hand they do have two choice dreads and preds).
2. The lack of variety in nid tanks (and especially shooting variants) proposed by Jervis (since changed in recent list variants).
3. The understanding that a new nid range would be sculpted (which is now very unlikely to occur).

As things now stand 2 and 3 are no longer a factor, and in fact both now count directly against factor 1.

Thus it may be a good idea to go back to a single cheap CC oriented fex, which still has some minimal ranged and FF ability (representing either a single bioweapon, or bioplasma/carapace spines etc, or a few fexes with ranged weapons scattered amongst many with none).   Such a unit would have a distinct niche in the list, be characterful, and represent the existing sculpt.

Having a variant for which there is no sculpt is not a great idea IMO. It is certainly not an easy sculpt to do well, and I don't know of anyone who has.

By the way I voted for 'other' because I favour the first option, but with minimal ranged capability rather than completely close combat.
Author:  netepic [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
The previous incarnation of the Carnifex allowed it to make a single bioplasma attack that was pretty meaty...
Author:  colonel_sponsz [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
I like the differences as I have a specifically tooth and claw army so will continue to use the current SK if a hybrid or shooty 'fex is introduced as the only option.

Orde

(From an analysit's point of view I would have to say that the questions in the poll are skewed towards the hybrid.  There is an option for a single CC 'fex and a single hybrid 'fex but no option for a single shooty 'fex.  This means that if you want a single shooty 'fex or a single hybrid 'fex then you will have to vote for the hybrid.  Not really sure if it's really an issue here but I'm trained to look for these things.)
Author:  ragnarok [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
I've gone for as many as we can fir in :D .  However I know that multiply fex genuses is more for another list so I would stick to 2  Long ranged barbed fex and a screamer killer.

It forces us to make a choice.  Go for firepower or the ability to stomp things good.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
I don't want a hybrid.

I'd rather either a pure CC beast (That's what the model is) or the option to have a Shooting beast which the player would have to convert...

A Hybrid is the worst of both worlds... it doesn't have a model, and it's not very 'focused'.


1. Perhaps a slightly misguided attempt to try and replicate 40k detail in Epic, rather than going for an 'average' fex.  Ie SM have 'average' squads (tho on the other hand they do have two choice dreads and preds).

Note that they also have Devestator, Tactical and Assault squads. That's where Marine's choices are, and is a better analogy.
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?

(colonel_sponsz @ Feb. 20 2007,10:16)
QUOTE
(From an analysit's point of view I would have to say that the questions in the poll are skewed towards the hybrid. ?There is an option for a single CC 'fex and a single hybrid 'fex but no option for a single shooty 'fex. ?This means that if you want a single shooty 'fex or a single hybrid 'fex then you will have to vote for the hybrid. ?Not really sure if it's really an issue here but I'm trained to look for these things.)

Ah, that was on purpose as I don't believe anyone has proposed a "shooting only" Carnifex as the only one in the list, but thanks for the analysis!
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
I don't suppose anyone will be surprised by my opinion on this one...

I like specialization based on genuses rather than biomorphs.  I can just about deal with the Carnifex variants because the variety in 40K is so extreme, however there definitely does not need to be more than 2 variants (CC/FF).  Leman Russ and Predators have a great deal of customization at 40K level and are both relegated to effectively 2 variants.  I dont' see the 'fex as any different in that respect.

That said, the chances of getting new models is virtually nil and that is good motivation to keep it to a single version.  If there is a single version, I think it should be primarily CC but could reflect a certain level of "hybrid" by giving it slightly better FF ability than the current CC-focus version.
Author:  Cobalt [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
I hate micromanagement, and the swarms are already a nightmare to handle. I vote for one, CC beast with limited FF.

So I follow Other, since a 15cm mvt pure CC beast will hardly see any action...
Author:  Soren [ Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
Vote for one hybrid. You already have enought coices in the swarm list at the moment

Soren
Author:  Dobbsy [ Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  [Discussion] Carnifex - How many do we need/want?
I went with Hybrid as it's not too hard to give the current mini a shooter conversion-wise -- however if push comes to shove I'll take the CC version as that's what the mini is WYSIWYG.
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