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Moving out of synapse range and "go to ground"?
Tactica
 Post subject: Moving out of synapse range and "go to ground"?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:02 pm 
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Good question.

This should be clarified if there is an intention one way or the other.

Jaldon?

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Moving out of synapse range and "go to ground"?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:27 am 
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Is this what you mean Hena? This is from 7.1
During the Engage Action all of a swarm's brood creature units can move out of both synapse coherency and normal coherency of the swarm's synapse creature group, however these same brood creature units must maintain coherency with each other, and all of the brood creature units from the swarm must be committed to the Engage Action.
At the end of the Engage Action, both the synapse creature group controlling the swarm and any remaining brood creature units from the swarm must attempt to get back into normal coherency if the combat was a Tyranid victory.
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Tactica
 Post subject: Moving out of synapse range and "go to ground"?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:21 pm 
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Hena,

There seems to be a sentence/paragraph missing in 1.40 after this first paragraph...

Starting with the second turn, and all subsequent turns, a swarm consists of it?s original synapse creature(s), and all the brood creatures within 15cms of those same synapse creature(s). Brood creatures that are within 15cms of synapse creatures from different swarms may join either swarm as designated by the Tyranid player (We recommend that the units that are in doubt be turned to face the swarm they belong to, to avoid confusion later in the turn).


Missing paragraph/sentence would go here. This would describe how Tyranid Brood units must always end moves within synapse range... the next paragraph then references the exception to this...

The only exception to this is when a swarm is carrying out an Engage Action.

During the Engage Action all of a swarm's brood creature units can move out of both synapse coherency and normal coherency of the swarm's synapse creature group, however these same brood creature units must maintain coherency with each other, and all of the brood creature units from the swarm must be committed to the Engage Action.

At the end of the Engage Action, both the synapse creature group controlling the swarm and any remaining brood creature units from the swarm must attempt to get back into normal coherency if the combat was a Tyranid victory.

Alternatively, both the synapse creature group controlling the swarm and any remaining brood creature units from the swarm may withdraw as normal if the combat was a Tyranid loss, again returning to normal coherency with each other during that withdrawl.

After any consolidation or withdrawal moves have been made, any brood creature units from the swarm that still remain outside of synapse coherency, of any synapse creature(s) from the swarm, they are removed from the table. It's assumed they have pursued fleeing enemy survivors so far away as to be well beyond the hive minds control for the time being.

Any brood creatures that start a turn not within 15cms of a synapse creature will go to ground and are removed from play. Although not dead it is assumed that the creatures have reverted to their animalistic instincts and are lurking on the battlefield waiting for an easy chance to get their next meal. These brood creatures may return to the game using the Spawning action (T1.50) described below.

In all cases the organization of the swarms is determined at the very start of the turn before anything else, like Teleports, Strategy Roll, etc.

That is how we've played it... prehaps just as carry over from v6. If memory serves, Jaldon clearly stated that it was his intention that the only time the critters could get away from control was during engage.

Still, this needs clarified by Jaldon fo accuracy,

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Moving out of synapse range and "go to ground"?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:42 pm 
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There's no reason that the normal coherency rules wouldn't apply.

A Swarm could abandon a brood by moving out of coherency just like any other formation can do so.  The out of coherency units would be destroyed at the end of the move in which they were out of coherency.  The normal BM placement for abandoning units would be negated by the Nid special rules.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Moving out of synapse range and "go to ground"?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:58 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Aug. 11 2006,19:42)
QUOTE
A Swarm could abandon a brood by moving out of coherency just like any other formation can do so. ?The out of coherency units would be destroyed at the end of the move in which they were out of coherency. ?The normal BM placement for abandoning units would be negated by the Nid special rules.

The thing I don't like about this is the, I believe unintentional, ability to say, "Hmmm, don't really need those Carnifex way back there, I'll get them out of coherency, kill them, and then respawn them right near the enemy." ?

I don't think that kind of "teleport/spawn" is desirable at all, and really doesn't make sense at all from a "fluff" perspective.  And a "limit" on Tyranids like that isn't really a bad thing.




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Tactica
 Post subject: Moving out of synapse range and "go to ground"?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:32 pm 
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NH,

"Eer?"

I'm in agreement with Chroma!

I can see it already... formations line up with hard to kill stuff in front. Shots come in and kill/wound the hard to kill stuff leaving 1 or 2...

Formation triples abandoning the slower hard to kill stuff.

Spawn it all back in the end phase.

So harder to kill bugs become shields for deployment... dropping them in the eventual flight forward, only to have them summoned momentarily...

Not a place I think we want to be with the bugs for balance as well as tactics.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Moving out of synapse range and "go to ground"?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:16 pm 
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(Chroma @ Aug. 11 2006,19:58)
QUOTE

(nealhunt @ Aug. 11 2006,19:42)
QUOTE
A Swarm could abandon a brood by moving out of coherency just like any other formation can do so.  The out of coherency units would be destroyed at the end of the move in which they were out of coherency.  The normal BM placement for abandoning units would be negated by the Nid special rules.

The thing I don't like about this is the, I believe unintentional, ability to say, "Hmmm, don't really need those Carnifex way back there, I'll get them out of coherency, kill them, and then respawn them right near the enemy."  

I don't think that kind of "teleport/spawn" is desirable at all, and really doesn't make sense at all from a "fluff" perspective.  And a "limit" on Tyranids like that isn't really a bad thing.

I have a hard time thinking it would be a problem in most cases.  I don't think it's going to be practical, let alone abusable.  The proposed abuse of a teleport/spawn relies on an awful lot of assumptions.

The unit has to be unavailable any other way, i.e. none have been killed so far.  If the unit is that uber-valuable the army should have several and the enemy should be trying to kill them.  They should be available for spawning anyway.

The capabilities of the unit couldn't be approximated with other spawnable creatures, e.g. spawning Hormagaunts for the big assault instead of Carnifexes.

The formation that the unit is in can afford to use its activation to move in order to dump the unit.  An arty brood is never going to want to do that.

The urgency of having the specific teleport/spawned unit at the front is great enough that you are willing to give up having more units on the battlefield as a whole in order to move that specific unit.


We're talking about broods here.  The only ones that are likely to be both valuable and in short supply are going to be darn hard to count on spawning.  I think that killing off your Haruspex in the backfield and then failing to spawn it in the front line due to a bad die roll would be a special kind of suck.

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