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Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
Jaldon
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:46 pm 
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As with the Bio-Titan Thread this is just to get the ball rolling.

Here my thoughts sway to the less MW, but not all gone in every one of them, and very specialized monstrosities, again I have some thoughts I worked on while I was away and will also post them here.

Thanks All..............

Jaldon :p

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:23 pm 
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Here are the relevant stats to begin work on:

Note, all have Walker


Haruspex (50 pts)
- Speed 20cm / 4+ RA / CC 3+ / FF 5+
- Acid Spray /15cm /MW 5+ /Ignore Cover
- Large Claws /Base Contact /MWTK(D3) /CC weapon +1 attacks



Malefactor (50 pts)
- Speed 20cm / 4+ RA / CC 3+ / FF 5+
- Huge Claws /Base Contact /MW /CC weapon +2 attacks



Dactylis (75 pts)
- Speed 15cm / 5+ / CC 6+ / FF 5+
- Super Spore Mines /45cm /1BP /Disrupt, Indirect Fire



Exocrine (75 pts)
- Speed 20cm / 4+ / CC 5+ / FF 4+
- Bio Cannon 2x / 45cm / AP4+/AT5+ / Ignore Cover
- Big Claws /Base Contact /MW /CC weapon +1 attacks



Scythed Carnifex (35 pts)
- Speed 15cm / Armour 3+ / CC 4+ / FF 6+
- Big Claws /Base Contact /MW /CC weapon +1 attacks
- Notes: Fearless



Barbed Carnifex (35 pts)
- Speed 15cm / Armour 3+ / CC 4+ / FF 5+
- Venom Cannon /30cm /AP5+ AT6+
- Notes: Fearless



Changes:

- Exocrine Bio Cannon changed into line with the Bio-Titan's Bio Cannon's stats.



Open for debate:

- Any and all!




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Chroma
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:39 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 04 2006,19:23)
QUOTE
Scythed Carnifex (35 pts)
- Speed 15cm / Armour 3+ / CC 4+ / FF 6+
- Big Claws /Base Contact /MW /CC weapon +1 attacks
- Notes: Fearless


Barbed Carnifex (35 pts)
- Speed 15cm / Armour 3+ / CC 4+ / FF 5+
- Venom Cannon /30cm /AP5+ AT6+
- Notes: Fearless

Why not call them Carnifex - Screamer-Killer and Carnifex - Venomspitter like in the Tyranid Codex?

And I think the Venom Cannon one should either have them twin-linked or 2x.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Good idea, I always loved the Screamer-Killer name. :)

Mini-Update:



Carnifex: Screamer-Killer (35 pts)
- Speed 15cm / Armour 3+ / CC 4+ / FF 6+
- Big Claws /Base Contact /MW /CC weapon +1 attacks
- Notes: Fearless


Carnifex: Venomspitter (35 pts)
- Speed 15cm / Armour 3+ / CC 4+ / FF 5+
- Venom Cannon /30cm /AP5+ AT6+
- Notes: Fearless


And I think the Venom Cannon one should either have them twin-linked or 2x.


It is only 35pts...

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:09 pm 
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It makes sense for it to be twin-linked though. Since it has no melee weapons in that stat-line and a Carnifex would thus have to be carrying two Venom Cannons to have no significant melee ability (Well, even then they're not BAD in melee, but they only have 2 attacks that way). Twin-Linked Venom Cannons would only be 4+/5+ for a single shot, and still decidedly short range. They would, in essence, be like IG heavy weapon squads with shorter range and an inability to kill more then one item out of a formation at a time. IG get 4 of them with 8x 5+/6+ shots with 45cm range for 100 points. No armor saves, no fearless and 6+ melee 4+ firefight. That's 25 points each. For the slightly worse price you get 3 Venomspitters which get 3x 4+/5+ at 30cm, 3+ armor save, Fearless and 4+ melee/5+ FF. The IG gets more then 2.5x the ranged shots. Averaging about 2.6 hits compared to 1.5 for the fexes. The fexes survive better, but the IG undoubtably shoot much better for the same point-value. If it's a point of contention consider throwing them up to 40 points each, but I wouldn't think they'd be worth more then that.
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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:16 pm 
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Hi Guys,

*** How about this? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:18 pm 
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*** How about this? ***


I think he belongs in this thread: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....y161723

We've hashed out some modular weapons for the Hierophant and Hydraphant that would easily allow you to field it.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:23 pm 
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It makes sense for it to be twin-linked though.


Convinced.

Mini-Update:


Carnifex: Venomspitter (35 pts)
- Speed 15cm / Armour 3+ / CC 4+ / FF 5+
- Twin-Linked Venom Cannon /30cm /AP4+ AT6+
- Notes: Fearless




About once per page of debate I'll repost the entire list of creatures, so we can keep things rolling without confusing things.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:18 pm 
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Mini Update:


Haruspex (50 pts)
- Speed 20cm / 4+ RA / CC 3+ / FF 5+
- Acid Spray /15cm / AP2+/AT6+ / Ignore Cover
- Large Claws /Base Contact /MWTK(D3) /CC weapon +1 attacks


Reason:
- Acid spray stats brought into line with the acid spray on the Scythed Hierodule.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:35 pm 
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Because under the current rules, the Acid Spray is Str 5, AP 3.


In comparison, we've got the Bio-Cannons, which are Str 10, AP 3, and yet we've taken their MW status away.


AP2+ / AT6+ represents the anti-infantry bias of the weapon nicely I believe.




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Ilushia
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:54 pm 
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The acid spray on the smaller nid creatures is not the same as on the bio-titans. On the smaller nid creatuers they're more like super heavy flamers, capable of melting through armor and damaging better, but not particularly great at killing tanks. AP 3+/AT5+ wouldn't be bad either. As that would make you worry about leaving tanks too close to it. But I like it at AP2+/AT6+ or so. It'll cut right through normal marines, IG, etc. But it's not going to slag terminators or a leman russ without a lot of luck. Won't even slag something like Ogryns consistently either.
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ragnarok
 Post subject: Tyranid Brood Creature AV Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:33 am 
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I'm not going to repeat what I have already said in the WE thread (I'm too lazy to copy and paste  :D ).  However I do think that the bio tanks can have distint battlefield roles.

Close assault. (a couple of MW CC attacks)
Haruspex

supporting fire (a decent FF and bad, for nids, CC)
Malefactor

Brood support (someting that can be mixed into a swarm and hopefully be over looked)
both carnies

Long range fire support (Finds a nice nest and sits there shooting towards the enemies general direction)
Exocrine and Dactylis

This means I want a radical(ish) overhual of the weapons layout.

At the moment, for 135pts I can get two Haruspex and a carnifex, 10pts more than a Heirodules and more deadly.  The carnie is used as an ablative shield on the way in, with its death speeding up the other two.  Then when in combat they have flying TK hits (since they aren't WEs).

So things I would like to see.
1) No TK attacks (or maybe upto TK(1))
2) A dedicated FF beastie.  The Malenfactor looks like it has massive spine banks for this job
3)The Exocinre and Dactylis to have speed 10 or 15.  With the Exocrines speed 20 I use them as very mobile gun groups.  With their attacks becoming easier to hit with, I can field a nasty force that can double and still hit alot.

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