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Tyranids and Engage |
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Tyranids and Engage  Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:59 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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The rules state: After any consolidation or withdrawal moves have been made, any brood creature units from the swarm that still remain outside of synapse coherency, of any synapse creature(s) from the swarm, they are removed from the table. It's assumed they have pursued fleeing enemy survivors so far away as to be well beyond the hive minds control for the time being.
So, you'd get your consolidation move before they were removed. The trouble is that you've lost the synapse creature in that swarm, thus they'd still vanish, since you couldn't get them inside range of a synapse creature in that swarm.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Tyranids and Engage Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:27 am |
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I really don't know either way. The fact that it says "Still" kindof implies that they had to start the movement outside Synapse range. I'd probably assume that if they did, then they're still removed. It makes assaults on Tyranids a bit easier to wipe them out with, and I think the idea was it means they can be wiped out in assaults, even though they can't be broken. As for picking out War Engines: As far as I know you can't pick out war engines during assaults. You can with shooting, certainly, which has always made me wonder about the usefulness of the Harridan and Vituperaptor... They're great big fire magnets and there's very little (Heirodules) which they can hide behind.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Tyranids and Engage Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:43 am |
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I've been kinda wondering about that over all with the Tyrands. It seems like some of the synapse creatures just aren't all that useful. The Tyrant, Vituperaptor and Harridan all come to mind. The Tyrant really only seems all that useful for putting in with the slower AV units. Carnifexes, Haruspex, Exocrine, and suchlike. Which is fairly nice I'll admit. The Harridan and Vituperaptor though, have no really good units to put around them. If you put War Engines around them, then you're slowing them down and removing their primary advantage: They're Skimmers. If you don't, then they're too easy to kill off...
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Tyranids and Engage Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:37 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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I like the Greater Synapse Node for sitting on my Blitz with a couple of Exocrines to barrage the enemy (4 Exocrines work wonders for this). Usually I'd expect most people to be too busy trying to deal with the rest of my army to seriously try and take it out. If you're really worried, drop a single Heirodule in with it to shield it. But I'd usually rather not.
I like the Dominatrix, but I'm not sure she's worth 500 points (Might be, never seen them get any use). Shield her with 3-4 Heirodules and she's fairly hard to kill...
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Chroma
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Post subject: Tyranids and Engage Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:54 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
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| Quote (Hena @ 12 June 2006 (05:33)) | | We had a tourney and I encountered a question. In the engage, the tyranids have the rules about removing the units automatically. Does this happen if the brood doesn't try to leave the synapse range of the synapse creatures? |
We've played it that if the Synapse creature(s) of the swarm are killed in an engage, all the Brood creatures go to ground, even if the Nids win... discovered the weakness of this when engaging some Eldar Rangers which just used sniper to put all their hits on a Hive Tyrant... 
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Tyranids and Engage Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:40 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Going back to the first question, I'm not sure.
The "back into coherency" bit was introduced so that Synapse creatures could send a swarm of little bugs off to fight by themselves, either as "expendables" or to be able to send faster things ahead to engage while the SC closed and then the swarm used a consolidation move to get back in coherency.
In short, I'm not sure it was intended to apply to a swarm that lost its SC mid-activation as in this case.
In all other cases of the SC being killed mid-turn the swarm wouldn't go to ground until the following beginning phase when swarm coherency is determined.
That said, I don't really have a problem with the swarm evaporting if the SC is killed and the swarm loses assault. That seems reasonable.
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I know everyone seems to think that WE synapses are not a good idea, but I am consistently pounded by them when my opponents take them. Vituperators loaded with Raveners and surrounded by Gargoyles are seriously nasty bugs that are near-impossible to escape.
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Neal
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Chroma
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Post subject: Tyranids and Engage Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:09 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 12 June 2006 (14:40)) | | I know everyone seems to think that WE synapses are not a good idea, but I am consistently pounded by them when my opponents take them. ?Vituperators loaded with Raveners and surrounded by Gargoyles are seriously nasty bugs that are near-impossible to escape. |
Don't you just declare all fire on the War Engine and watch it go "poof"? With Orks and Supa-Zzaps it's frighteningly easy to do, or just massed fire in general.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Tyranids and Engage Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:05 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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| Quote (Chroma @ 12 June 2006 (17:09)) | | Quote (nealhunt @ 12 June 2006 (14:40)) | | I know everyone seems to think that WE synapses are not a good idea, but I am consistently pounded by them when my opponents take them. Vituperators loaded with Raveners and surrounded by Gargoyles are seriously nasty bugs that are near-impossible to escape. |
Don't you just declare all fire on the War Engine and watch it go "poof"? With Orks and Supa-Zzaps it's frighteningly easy to do, or just massed fire in general. |
What kind of commander would put it out where it could be seen? It has 30cm move/35cm CC range/45cm engage range. A board set up by GT standards should have sufficient cover for it to close range without taking large quantities of fire.
Plus, an army with lots of big bugs requires a lot of choices about what to use those precious TK shots against. Shooting one of 3 Heirophants you can see versus saving TK shots for the Vituperator that might or might not show itself this turn is really not much of a choice. One or the other is going to get you, so you might as well take out the one you can versus risking it.
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Neal
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