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Hydraphant and Hierophant
Cobalt
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:02 pm 
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Hi all,

Regarding the new 6.1 list biotitans.

First, It has been stated that those nasty things should get more attacks.
While I may agree, I don't want to discuss this here.
This thread started because I was looking at my miniatures:
Boy, do this (old) hierophant model look cool, with all the tentacles and all that... And lo! Here is the puny stoky dominatrix. With its bare back, she becomes a hydraphant...

And yet, the hydraphant is whay tougher and meaner that the hierophant?

It seems if you want to buy independents, if you can afford the hydraphant you will never buy the hierophant. Less weapons, less DC...

Actually, I would rather give them different roles. Make the hierophant the one big bad and nasty, on par with the dominatrix (8DC, 400 pts, a helluvalot of TT CC), and make the hydraphant a bit smaller (6 DC, 300 pts) with a different set of weapons, not just close combat monster.

This will give two different monsters, not just one better than the other.

Plus it will render justice to the wonnderrrrfulllll monster the hierophant is.

And fluffwise, using pseudo vulcan logic, you can explain that biometrical constraints can only allow for that many ressources in one living being : what you gain in thoughness you loose in variety of weapons and all that. But as I said, this is pseudo vulcan logic, and is only here to provide some color...

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:48 pm 
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The bottom picture here is a good reaon to keep the hierophant a small titan.  The forge world 40K scale one is only the size of a warhound titan.

However I do think we should give it an option to get some guns.  Maybe this way forge world will make one for us, and rerelease their epic scale Harridin.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:31 pm 
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The FW Hierophant has the size of the E40k-aera Hierodule and the FW Hierodule is a completely new creature.
I don't know why FW called its bio-titan aHierophant...it would be the same as if they called its Warhound a Warlord titan.

So:
FW Hierophant = Hierdule Bio-Titan in Epic
FW Hierodule = some kind of SuperHeavyTank-Bug

If FW would do an Wh40k-sized Hydraphant, then it should be much larger than the FW Hierophant.

A Wh40k-sized Dominatrix would be double the size (and quadrupel the bodymass!) of the FW Hierophant.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:23 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 18 Jan. 2006 (18:46))
This is one of sorryest things with Epic Tyranids. The whole silly Hierophant/Hierodule mess. Atm I use smaller Bio-Titan as Hierophant and larger I would use as Hydraphant. And Dominatrix is itself. IMHO Dominatrix model is not that great looking and both bio titans are much better.

I would like to get GW to accept the smaller as Hierophant and larger as Hierodule. And redo the whole Dominatrix model. But thats probably not going to happen... :(

Hena, you are so right. I don't know why FW (assuming it's their fault) had to go and muck things up by switching names for Hierodule and Hierophant.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:33 pm 
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Why not do something similar in the playtest list for the Carnifex, just call them Lesser and Greater Bio-Titans and drop the Hierophant/Hydraphant for now.

Bio-Titan Swarm: 1 x Lesser Bio-Titan 300 points or 1 x Greater Bio-Titan 400 points.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:42 pm 
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@Dwarf Supreme: FW didn't switches names...it creates a totally new unit (the FW Hierodule) ad named the Hierdule a Hierophant.

A Hierodule (= lesser Bio-Titan) should be Warhound sized (as the FW Hierophant is).




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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:49 pm 
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Quote (BlackLegion @ 18 Jan. 2006 (19:42))
@Dwarf Supreme: FW didn't switches names...it creates a totally new unit 8the FW Hierodule) ad named the Hierdule a Hierophant.

A Hierodule (= lesser Bio-Titan) should be Warhound sized (as the FW Hierophant is).

However it happened, I still find it confusing.  :p

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Markconz
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:43 pm 
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I think most peopel are using the hierodule's as hierophants, and the hierophants as hydraphants. Confusing and annoying it most certainly is.

The hierophant was one of the best epic titans ever IMO. All those tentacles and spikes!

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Jaldon
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:48 am 
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Hey, you guys been peeking into my game room during secret playtesting. Well be warned I am going to find that mini-cam :wow:

Been using the Hiredule as Hierophant and the Hierophant as the Hydraphant, and the Dominatrix as the Dominatrix for a long time now. Gotta get those nicer models on the table :cool:

Trygon, well that has become our Hierodule, works for us anyways. Still love that 'count as' rule.

To quote JJ "Hierodule "

So I blame FW for the confusion. Despite this I do have to work with what I am given, and this can cause forced restraints we may not like all that much.

Still switching the names around is something to consider.

Thanks All

Jaldon :p

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Chroma
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:08 am 
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What about allowing a couple of weapon options on the bio-titans like the way Eldar or Orks have a couple of choices for weapon load-outs.

So 1-2 Nasty Claws
0-1 Bile Cannon
0-1 Pyro-Acidic Spray

Or something along those lines?

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Jaldon
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:41 am 
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I defintely want to come back to this topic some time soon, for now I want to address the more immediate problem, my numerous typos and get v6.2 up to better snuff.

Please go see "The Norn Queen's Report" I plan on doing these perodically.

Jaldon :p

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:55 am 
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Quote (Chroma @ 04 Feb. 2006 (02:08))
What about allowing a couple of weapon options on the bio-titans like the way Eldar or Orks have a couple of choices for weapon load-outs.

So 1-2 Nasty Claws
0-1 Bile Cannon
0-1 Pyro-Acidic Spray

Or something along those lines?

I started a basic idea for a nid bio titan list over at the SG forum, it has a selection of weapon loads along that line.  I've got it on file somewhere, and will post it up if you want to see, or when we move onto that area.

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FarSeerElandrieth
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 3:41 am 
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Hey all -
...still playing catch-up... ?:down: ?:down:

Quote (ragnarok @ 04 Feb. 2006 (05:55))
Quote (Chroma @ 04 Feb. 2006 (02:08))
What about allowing a couple of weapon options on the bio-titans
like the way Eldar or Orks have a couple of choices for weapon load-outs.
So 1-2 Nasty Claws
0-1 Bile Cannon
0-1 Pyro-Acidic Spray
Or something along those lines?

I started a basic idea for a nid bio titan list over at the SG forum - it has a selection
of weapon loads along that line. ?I've got it on file somewhere, and will post it up if
you want to see, or when we move onto that area.

Curious if these ideas are still being kicked around for Bio-Titans...??

Sorry if I'm covering old ground - I've been trying to skim over everything that's
been posted since January... but not antiquated by the new (v7) ArmyList.

Still reading... :)
Larry
HiveFleet Typhon

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Hydraphant and Hierophant
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 9:39 am 
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An idea that I had for bio titans would be that they could choose two of the fllowing weapons for their fore limbs

Gargantuan claws +1CC TK(1)
Crushing claws +1CC TK(D3)
Spine banks +3FF
Lash whips +3CC first strike
Bio acid cannons 1x 45cm MW5+ ignore cover
Chitin cannons 4X 45cm AP3+/AT5+
Scything blades +3CC MW

Also take some of the following if they wish
beweaponed tail +D3CC MW
Razor sharp mandibles +1CC MW
Spore cloud +1CC per enemy in BB

Finally Hydraphant and Dominatrix must have one of the following
some sort of spore mine battery
large bio cannons
some sort of ranged weapon that either does auto citical or auto fire critical possible slow firing
some sort of AA battery

As you can see the idea was never finished.

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