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Raveners
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5167		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ragnarok [ Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Raveners
Well in the main discussing threads there has been quite alot of talk on what to do with raveners.  They are to special top be common brood creatures but not special enough to be uncommon.

The main problems seem to be getting their stats right for them to provide a horde effect, rather than a group of elite bugs.

There hjas been all sorts of suggestions on what to do with them.  My preferance would be to keep the stat line as close to as it is rather than force them to be weaker just to fit into the horde feel.  They are shootier and stabbier than warriors and should have a statline to reflect this.

However there is a but coming.  My belief in their stat line being right is in a comparrison of whata stand of 3 or 4 of them can do compared to what a stand of 3 or 4 warriors could do, looking at avarage stats from 40K (so no uber warriors to prove that raveners are weaker, since uber warrior arn't horde).

Now if they were LV then the number of creatures per stand would go down to 1.  Thus they could have a weaker statline, since 1 grunt doesn't make much differance on the battle field.  However LV brings up its own problems, mainly our beloved snakes running (well slithering) into walls and trees.

My prefered solution to this would be the addittion of a new unit type to complete the group we have.  Now I know that this is an introduction of a new rule (which we should steer clear of) but it is a rule that all races should be able to use (especially Tau).

This unit type is heavy Infantry.  Basically it is the reverse of light vehicle.  so the unit move like infantry but can be shot by AP and AT guns. (and a modelling note saying that you need 1 to 4 models per stand).

So what other ideas are there out there?
Author:  ObiWan [ Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Raveners
The idea sounds good, unfortunately having to create a new rule may not be looked upon kindly by the higher powers.
How about giving him LV and walker?
another thing to consider could be to alter by a factor of one either CC or FF, or even both, to have the feel of a strong unit but still an hordish one. My .02
Author:  Jaldon [ Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:40 am ]
Post subject:  Raveners
I am loath to add another 'special rule', no matter how well intended, as the man above me just isn't going to go for it as the Nids are already pushing the limit as it is.

This leaves LV/Walker, which I am considering, but I am having a problem with them being 'bumped out' by terrrain no matter how small that number may be.

I really don't want to lower any of their present stats, at this time, as it would reduce their 'elite' status compared to their friends.

I am presently leaning toward dropping infiltrate and lowering costs to 20pts each, again. (Not immediately, I want to playtest v6.22 for a bit right now)

All of this said, please continue to debate here on the Ravener, as something sorta middle of the road could come up and help further this issue.

Thanks Ragnarok for starting this seperate thread, ideas welcome, always.......

Jaldon :p
Author:  Hojyn [ Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Raveners
Quote (Jaldon @ 25 Feb. 2006 (02:40))
This leaves LV/Walker, which I am considering, but I am having a problem with them being 'bumped out' by terrrain no matter how small that number may be.

Hi,

I'm not a Tyranid player (yet... ?:) ), but I do follow these discussions from time to time, so here are my two cents.

Why not simply make Raveners Light Vehicles and add "May ignore all terrain restrictions" (or some text to that effect) in their Notes?

Granted, it is a special rule, but it is simple enough that nobody should have any trouble remembering/understanding it.

EDIT: I just realized that "May ignore all terrain restrictions" would actually make Raveners better than regular infantry... How about:

"Raveners are considered Infantry for all terrain effects purposes"
Author:  ragnarok [ Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Raveners
We tried that before with the agility rule, and is identical to the heavy infantry idea.  However the Boss says it is too many special rules and I'm having to agree with him (or I will be rendered down to my consituant parts  :D ).  Maybe heavy infantry could be added in the next rules review or EA V2.0.

Now I want to look at the ideas on the page as it were, rather than just comments like lets drop x and give it y.  (I can't visualise what it has  :down: I'm just a simple warrior organisum)

V6.22 25pts

Type  Speed armour   CC  FF
inf      20cm    5+      4+  5+
infiltrator, brood (2)

Itteration a  20pts

Type  Speed armour  CC   FF
inf      20cm    5+      4+  5+
brood (2)

Itteration b 20pts

Type  Speed armour   CC  FF
LV      20cm    6+      5+  6+
brood (1)

With the LV version I've dropped  its armour, FF and CC by 1 each to represent the lesser ability of a single ravener compared to a brood of 3ish.  Also since there is only one of them the brood cost has dropped to 1, making more of a viable option.
Author:  ragnarok [ Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Raveners
A thought I just had.  Why acan Raveners be LV whilst warriors (similar size) arn't?

True that would make them attract more fire power but would also triple the unit size (since LV are based singularly and warriors normally three per base).
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