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multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
ragnarok
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:21 pm 
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I've been thinking about the option for combining synpase creatures into one group and have come to the (possible wrong) conclusion, that doing so reduces the flexability too much for the gain.

The gain is in swarm survivability.  With more synapse creatures around there is less chance that a lucky shot will wipe it out next beginning phase, as it goes to ground.

The cons are a reduction in activations, since activations are the sum of synapse groups and independant swarms.

and a reduction in number of brood creatures brought back.  Since spawning is done per swarm rather than synpase creature.

Having it that each synpase creature (or set of warrioirs) in the group adds D6 to the spawn value is probably over harsh.  Since you could have 3D6 spawning points before range, brood mothers ect.

So what about saying that for spawning you roll 1D6 per synapse creature/warrior group and pick the highest result.

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Chroma
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:00 am 
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Quote (Hena @ 07 Feb. 2006 (04:57))
This would be quite good idea. The only problem that I can think of is Dominatrix and the brood mother ability.

Actually, I think the Dom should be a 0-1 choice, as she *is* the queen of the swarm.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:55 am 
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I would say swarm mother is a bonus ability, so you roll "d6 pick the highest (for having two spynapse creatures) +1D6 if far enough away from the enmemy, +2D6 for having two swarm mothers in the formation, +xD6 for mycetic spores.

So two dominatrixi would create the swarm from hell, well until a warlord with 4 volcano cannons turns up to "explain" the disadvantage of being a large target.

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ayoras
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:42 pm 
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It's a good idea ragnarok. Currently, there is no interest in the use of the option given by the synapse group creation. The drawbacks are too important (less spawning and activation) for the pros (more survavibility of your synapse group). As you remark, there is some problematic points though :

- If you have two queens in a single swarm (so a synapse group of two dominatrix, we all agree, it is only for the sake of argument) : I totally agree with chroma. I don't imagine two queens on the ground in the same army. I would say that they would figth themselves until death. The nid queen is the mother of the army. Have you ever see an anthill or a bee hive with two queens? It seems so obvious to me. The limitation of 0-1 MUST be added to the army list.

- if you have a Queen and X another synapses in a single swarm : your solution is good ragnarok. you roll (X+1)D6, you choose the best roll, then you roll another D6 for the queen's ability and add the result to the first roll you previously chose.

- For the myecetic spore : proceed exactly as above.

So the formula for a swarm with X synapses and Y miecetic spores used :

(the best result of XD6)+(YD6)+(1D6 if there is a queen in the synapse group)


Nevertheless, I don't think it is enough to encourage to group synapses. The main drawback is activation, not spawning, moreover this drawback is not totally suppress with this rule. So I think the solution of this formula is better :

XD6+YD6+(1D6 if there is a queen in the synapse group)

The choice would be between survivability and activation. It is more logical.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:26 pm 
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Just to prove I have a life outside of wargaming, some ant colonies that have more than one queen, fire ants and the argentine super colonies being prime examples (okay, maybe I don't have a life outside of wargaming).

I have to admitt that I have never liked the idea of dominatrixi having symbiotic queens.  They should be saflty nestled onboard a hiveship.

The way I see it is that they might be immature queens sent to the battlefield to prove that they are eloved enough to survive.

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ayoras
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:49 pm 
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To explain better my point of view, since it seems too complex according to hena, my purpose is to give to a swarm as many D6 for spawning as the number of synapse in the swarm (tyrannid warriors count for 1 even if they are 3). In this way, you loose no D6 for spawning when you group synapse, only activation.

Now, I'm going to speak about the Queens!

- For the ants, ok it is true that some species (especially nomad species, like fireants) have several Queens, but it is very rare (less than 10 species among about 1000 different species on earth). It is equally true that you'll never see a queen on a battle field. So my example wasn't very relevant, because according to this fact, the limitation would be 0-0 ^^.

- For the bees, sometimes (very very rarely), some bee-keeper find beehive with two queens (never more). The mother and the daugther, but it is STRICTLY temporary. The daugther always quit very quicly the hive.
A lot of studies have been made to create two-queen hives. It is purely artificial. The sting of the two queens is cut, they are put together in a box, alone, with no other bee. At the beginning, they figth together. After a moment, they eventually understand that they can't kill the other queen (it is a little bit a stupid animal, we speak about a bee ^^). After that, they will be able to work together and to create an hive with two queens.
But in the nature you'll never find a beehive with really 2 queens.

According to bee-keepers who have practiced this manipulation, the balance of the social and biological functions of the colony is totally modified :

- Bees become very 'sweet'.
- The reproduction instinct disapears (no daugther is created in order to create a new hive).
- Bees loose theyr agressivity against other bees.
- the hive finally accept 10 queens.
- if one of the queens die, she is replaced by the hive.



Finally, I don't see the problem with the 0-1 limitation. Do you often take more than one dominatrix? Moreover, lictor formations have already a limitation of 0-2.




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clausewitz
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:01 pm 
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Apologies if my Tyranid knowledge is out of date but...

In Jaldon's v6 pdf, the Dominatrix is listed as having the Supreme Commander ability.  If this hasn't been changed (or proposed to be changed), then wouldn't the Dominatrix need to be a 0-1 unit?  As no army can have more than one Supreme Commander.
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Chroma
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:11 pm 
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Quote (clausewitz @ 07 Feb. 2006 (16:01))
In Jaldon's v6 pdf, the Dominatrix is listed as having the Supreme Commander ability. ?If this hasn't been changed (or proposed to be changed), then wouldn't the Dominatrix need to be a 0-1 unit? ?As no army can have more than one Supreme Commander.

Er... good point!

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ayoras
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:18 pm 
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Yup, I think so. 0-1 Queen in a hive, so obvious I have already said...

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clausewitz
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:30 pm 
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Chroma,

Fresh perspective often helps :)

(like the rerolling rally checks with left over SC reroll!)
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Chroma
 Post subject: multiple synapse in a swarm and spawning
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:52 pm 
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Quote (clausewitz @ 07 Feb. 2006 (16:30))
(like the rerolling rally checks with left over SC reroll!)

*grin*  I think that whole little exchange really made my week last week!  *laugh*

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