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[Lists] Tyranid v6.0 http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5141 |
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Author: | Jaldon [ Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:20 am ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
Phase IV ?Subdual? Tyranid Army List v6.0 T1.1 SPECIAL RULES Strategy Rating: 1 Initiative Rating: 2+ T1.20 UNSTOPPABLE Tyranid formations never receive blast markers and therefore can never be suppressed or broken by them. As long as they are under the control of the greater hive mind they, quite literally, don?t know the meaning of fear and will mindlessly sell their lives to bring victory to the greater hive mind. Tyranid formations that lose an assault must still make a withdrawal move, and any units that end their move within 15cms of an enemy unit will be destroyed, but the formation itself is not broken. T1.30 TYRANID SWARMS The Tyranid army is divided into three basic groups of units, these are; Brood Creatures, Independent Creatures, and Synapse Creatures (with Brood Creatures themselves being further subdivided into Armored Brood Creatures, Uncommon Brood Creatures, and Common Brood Creatures). Each creature?s type is noted on their individual data sheets and in the army list that follows. Independent Creatures are organized into formations like other units, and are treated in all ways as if they were a normal formation in Epic-A, as this concerns coherency, and formations. Synapse creatures and brood creatures are treated a bit differently. Instead of having a fixed formation brood creatures are purchased as individual units that will become part of a swarm that is controlled by a synapse creature group. It must be made clear that the Swarm is the formation, and that both the synapse creature group controlling it, and the brood creatures in it, make up a single formation that contains units (for all intents and purposes). In order for this to work Tyranid players must organize their brood creatures into swarms at the start of the game, and at the start of each turn after the first turn. All the units in the swarm will operate together for that turn as a single formation and are required to maintain coherency, as per all the rules for formations, throughout that turn. At the start of the game the Tyranid player simply assigns one, or more, brood creatures to a synapse creature group, thus creating a formation called a swarm, until all the brood creatures have been assigned. All such swarms must be set up in a legal formation using the instructions for the scenario. If the Tyranid player wants they may hold some brood creatures back and not assign them to any synapse creature group. These unassigned brood creatures may be used when a swarm spawns during the game (see T1.40 Spawning) Starting with the second turn, and all subsequent turns, a swarm consists of it?s original synapse creature group, and all the brood creatures within 15cms of those same synapse creature(s). Brood creatures that are within 15cms of synapse creatures from different swarms may join either swarm as designated by the Tyranid player (We recommend that the units that are in doubt be turned to face the swarm they belong to, to avoid confusion later in the turn). Any brood creatures that start a turn not within 15cms of a synapse creature will go to ground and are removed from play. Although not dead it is assumed that the creatures have reverted to their animalistic instincts and are lurking on the battlefield waiting for an easy chance to get their next meal. These brood creatures may return to the game using the Spawning action (T1.40) described below. Brood creatures may not voluntarily leave the coherency of the swarm, nor may they voluntarily leave the synapse range of the synapse creature controlling them, except at the very start of the turn (as explained above), or if the synapse creature controlling the swarm in question has a movement of 0cms. In the later case the brood creatures move as if they were one formation and maintain coherency with each other, but not having to remain in coherency, nor synapse range, of the original controlling synapse creature group. This move has no adverse effects on the abandoned synapse creature group. In all cases the organization of the swarms is determined at the very start of the turn before anything else, like Teleports, Strategy Roll, etc. T1.40 SPAWNING ACTION One of the most terrifying things about fighting the Tyranid army is there seems to be no end to the number of creatures in the army. Even if an attack is stopped more tyranids will soon appear to renew it. Some of these will be brood creatures that have gone to ground earlier in the battle but now have been incorporated back into the hive mind?s control, while others will be reinforcements sent by the hive mind to sustain the attack. To represent this endless stream of claws Tyranid formations that carry out a Marshal Action may spawn instead of regrouping. Spawning allows the Tyranid player to return brood creatures to play that have been killed, gone to ground, or were held off table before the start of the battle. Also note that only brood creatures can be spawned, not synapse creatures, or independent creatures as these creatures are to rare to be spawned back in this manner. Each swarm may return 1D6 spawning points worth of brood creatures back into play, plus an extra 1D6 spawning points if there are no enemy units within 30cms of any unit in the swarm. The swarm may also add 1D6 spawning points for each myecetic spore that is added to the swarm during the spawning action (up to a maximum of three myecetic spores may be added to a single spawning action). Last, a swarm under the control of a Dominatrix rolls an extra 1D6 spawning points for the hive mind nexus created by this creature (so a swarm under the control of a Dominatrix rolls a base 2D6 spawning points). The Tyranid player uses the number of spawning points rolled to return brood creatures that are off table and return them to the battle. Each brood creature type has a spawning value based upon it?s general availability, or lack there of, to the Tyranid army as a whole. Common Brood Creatures Unit costs one spawning point each to return it to play, Uncommon Brood Creatures Unit costs two spawning points each to return it to play, and Armored Brood Creatures Unit costs three spawning points each to return it to play. Armored Brood Creature Units that are war engines cost three spawning points for each DC of that unit, so a DC3 Armored Brood Creature that is a war engine would cost nine spawning points. Place any units spawned back by a swarm within 5cms of any synapse creature(s) from that swarm. Spawned units may not be placed in the zone of control of an enemy unit, or in impassable terrain. T1.60 WAR ENGINE REGENERATION Really large Tyranid creatures (the size of most Imperial War Engines) are covered inside and out with symbiote creatures that swarm in and around the creature healing wounds, repairing damaged tissue, and stemming the flow of vital bodily fluids. This makes Tyranid war engines dangerous foes indeed as an unwary Princep may think he has given one of them a mortal wound only to have that same creature pull itself up from the ground and attack. To represent the actions of these symbiotic creatures during the Rally Phase the Tyranid player rolls 1D6for each starting DC capacity of a war engine. For each roll of 6+ that war engine recovers on of it?s lost DCs. As these symbiotes cannot increase the size of a Tyranid war engine, nor make it stronger, these rolls can only be used to replace a war engines lost DCs. T1.70 GT VICTORY CONDITIONS AND TYRANIDS Because of the unique nature of the Tyranid army, and the completely alien Hive Mind that controls it, it doesn?t ?see? military objectives in the same way that most sentient commanders, of any number of known races in the, galaxy do. For example a sentient commander would keenly feel heavy losses in personnel, while the Hive Mind thinks no more of expending gaunts in battle then most sentient commanders would ammunition. This ?alien outlook? requires some changes in the way that GT objectives are treated by the Tyranid army. T1.71 Objectives Brood creatures can be best described as almost mindless drones whom the Hive Mind gives some direction to, while at the same time letting that same creatures instinctive behavior do the rest. In effect the Hive Mind only tells the brood creatures where to go and how fast to get there and leaves the detailed work of fighting to the brood creatures instinctive behavior. So the real truth is the brood creatures have no idea why they are going where they are going, nor what they are supposed to be doing once they get there, so they could walk right past the objective they have been sent to secure! Fortunately the Hive Mind does provide this ?more detailed? bit of information to the ?higher creatures? (Independents and Synapse) that make up the army so that at the very least these positions, that it deems vital, can be secured. To represent this effect in the Tyranid army only independents creatures and synapse creatures (not brood creatures) can be used to gain control over, or contest battlefield objectives. T1.72 Break Their Spirit The Tyranid army basically has no morale that any opponent can take advantage of, in fact their behavior is so instinctive in nature that it is doubtful that they have any feelings at all. While this is one of the great strengths in the way that the Hive Mind uses it?s lesser creatures, it also requires that the army use centralized control, via synapse creatures, to keep the mindless mass moving where it needs to go. So while it is impossible for an opponent to attack and degrade the Tyranid army?s morale, it is possible to eliminate the synapse creatures providing the link between the Hive Mind and it?s drones and degrade the effectiveness of the army. To represent this trait the Break Their Spirit goal is based upon the number of synapse creatures still on table in the Tyranid army. If the number of synapse creatures left on the table is equal to, or less then, the number of synapse creatures in the dead tray off table then the opponent has achieved the Break Their Spirit goal. T1.73 Tie Breakers All armies, including Tyranids, are effected adversely by losses in both personnel and equipment. In all other armies these losses directly effect the formations that make up the army with losses of 50%, or more, resulting in that formation becoming combat ineffective till it can be rebuilt. In effect the army has lost 100% of that formations ability to fight until it?s return. The Tyranid army doesn?t suffer attrition in this way. Synapse creatures can scower the battlefield and in mere minutes scoop up enough brood creatures that have gone to ground to put together a fit ready to fight formation ready to have at the enemy. When one speaks of attrition and the Tyranid army one must ignore what occurs on even a major battlefield and think on a planet wide scale, and even this itself makes it more difficult to judge what effects losses have had on them. The only thing that is clear is that the effects of attrition vary with what types of creatures the Tyranid army looses, difficult to produce synapse creatures losses are keenly felt, while gaunt brood creatures losses are far less noticed, but not ignored. To represent these effects on the battlefield the Tyranid army doesn?t use formation size at the end of a battle to determine points the opponent receives for a Tie Breaker. Instead the opponent receives the following points for each creature, by type, that is in the dead tray, or off table, at the end of the battle. Synapse Creature units are worth three times their point value Independent Creatures units are worth two times their point value Brood Creatures units are worth their full base points for each two such units of that type. ARMY LIST SYNAPSE CREATURE GROUPS (up to 1/3 of the armies points may be spent on these groups) Dominatrix Group: 1 x Dominatrix unit: 500 points Harridan Group: 1 x Harridan unit: 225 points Hive Tyrant Group: 1 x Hive Tyrant unit: 100 points Tyranid Warrior Group: 3 x Tyranid Warrior units: 150 points Hive Nexus Group: 1 x Hive Tyrant unit, 3 x Tyranid Warrior units: 250 points Synapse Node Group: 1 x Synapse Node unit: 100 points Lesser Synapse Node Group: 1 x Lesser Synapse Node unit: 30 points Vituperator Group: 1 x Vituperator unit: 350 points INDEPENDENT SWARMS (up to 1/3 of the armies points may be spent on these swarms) Genestealer Swarm: 6 to 9 Genestealer units: 25 points each 0-2 Lictor Swarms : 2 to 5 Lictor units: 75 points each Phant Swarm: 1 x Hierophant for 300 points OR 1 x Hydraphant for 400 points Expecorator Swarm: 1-2 x Expecorators: 250 points each ARMORED BROOD CREATURES (up to 1/3 of the armies points may be spent on these units) Biovore 35 points each Carnifex 50 points each Haruspex 50 points each Hierodule 150 points each Zoanthrope 50 points each Exocrine 75 points each Myecetic Spores 25 points each COMMON AND UNCOMMON BROOD CREATURES (At least 1/4 of the armies points must be spent on the following Brood Creatures) Uncommon Brood Creatures Ravaner 30 points each Gargoyle 20 points each Common Brood Creatures Termagaunt 15 points each Hormogaunt 15 points each UNIT DATA SHEETS SYNAPSE CREATURES Dominatrix Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 20cm / 4+ / 3+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Warp Blast / 30cm / AP4+ AT4+ AA4+ Bio-Plasmic Breath / Template / MW5+ AA5+ / Ignore Cover Monstrous Claws / Base Contact / MW(TK) / +4 attacks Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms notes: DC-8, Supreme Commander, Fearless, Walker, Reinforced Armor, Synapse Critical Hit: Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart; 1-5: The creature loses one DC and one of it?s Monstrous Claw attacks 6: The Dominatrix?s Symbiote is killed and it is no longer treated as a Supreme Commander. Harridan Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 35cm / 4+ / 3+ / 5+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Bio Cannon / 45cm / MW5+ / Ignore Cover Bio-Plasmic Breath / Template / MW5+ AA5+ / Ignore Cover Monstrous Claws / Base Contact / MW(TK) / +2 attacks notes: DC-3, Reinforced Armor, Skimmer, Synapse, Transport (Four Gargoyles, Gaunts, Hive Tyrant, Ravaner, Tyranid Warrior) Critical Hit: Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart; 1-5: The creature loses one DC and one of it?s Monstrous Claw attacks 6: The Harridan is killed Vituperator Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 30cm / 4+ / 3+ / 5+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes 2 x Bio Cannon / 45cm / MW5+ / Ignore Cover Bio-Plasmic Breath / Template / MW5+ AA5+ / Ignore Cover Monstrous Claws / Base Contact / MW(TK) / +2 attacks Huge Claws / Base Contact / MW / +1 attacks notes: DC-5, Reinforced Armor, Skimmer, Commander, Synapse Transport (Eight Gargoyles, Gaunts, Hive Tyrant, Ravaner, Tyranid Warrior) Critical: : Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart; 1-5: The creature loses one DC and one of it?s Monstrous Claw attacks 6: The Vituperator is killed Synapse Node Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 0cm / 4+ / 6+ / 6+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms notes: DC-3, Reinforced Armor, Fearless, Synapse Lesser Synapse Node Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 0cm / 5+ / 6+ / 6+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms notes: DC-1, Reinforced Armor, Synapse, Teleport Hive Tyrant Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 15cm / 4+ / 2+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Venom Cannon / 30cm / AP5+ AT6+ Monstrous Claws / Base Contact / MW(TK) / +2 attacks Tyrant Guard / Base Contact / MW(TK) / +2 attacks notes: Commander, Fearless, Invulnerable Save, Synapse (May be given wings then it is Speed 25cm Armor 5+ and is also given Jump Pack) Tyranid Warrior Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 15cm / 4+ / 3+ / 5+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Venom Cannon / 30cm / AP5+ AT6+ Death Spitters / (15cm) / small arms Scything Talons / Base Contact / CC weapon +1 attacks notes: Fearless, Synapse INDEPENDENT CREATURES Genestealers Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 15cm / 6+ / 4+ / 0+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Rending Claws / Base Contact / CC weapon +1 attacks notes: First Strike, Infiltrator, Scout, Independent Lictors Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 15cm / 5+ / 3+ / 0+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Huge Claws / Base Contact / MW / +2 attacks notes: First Strike, Infiltrator, Reinforced Armor, Scout, Teleport, Independent Hierophant Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 25cm / 4+ / 3+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Bio-Plasmic Breath / Template / MW5+ AA5+ / Ignore Cover Monstrous Claws / Base Contact / MW(TK) / +4 attacks notes: DC-6, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Independent Critical: : Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart; 1-5: The creature loses one DC and one of it?s Monstrous Claw attacks 6: The Hierophant is killed Hydraphant Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 20cm / 4+ / 3+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Warp Blast / 30cm / AP4+ AT4+ AA4+ Bio-Plasmic Breath / Template / MW5+ AA5+ / Ignore Cover Monstrous Claws / Base Contact / MW(TK) / +4 attacks Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms notes: DC-8, Fearless, Walker, Reinforced Armor, Independent Critical: : Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart; 1-5: The creature loses one DC and one of it?s Monstrous Claw attacks 6: The Hierophant is killed Expecorator Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 20cm / 4+ / 5+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Super Spore Mines / 60cm / 3BP / Disrupt, Indirect Fire notes: DC-3, Walker, Independent Critical: : Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart; 1-5: The Expecorator becomes slow firing 6: The Expecorator is killed ARMORED BROOD CREATURES Haruspex ?A? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 20cm / 4+ / 3+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms Acid Spray / 15cm / MW5+ / Ignore cover notes: Walker, Reinforced Armor, Thick Rear Armor, Brood Haruspex ?B? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 20cm / 4+ / 3+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms Huge Claws / Base Contact / MW / +2 attacks notes: Walker, Reinforced Armor, Thick Rear Armor, Brood Carnifex ?A? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 15cm / 4+ / 3+ / 6+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Spore Cysts / (15cm) / small arms Huge Claws / Base Contact / MW / +2 attacks notes: Fearless, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood Carnifex ?B? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 15cm / 4+ / 4+ / 5+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Spore Cysts / (15cm) / small arms 2 x Venom Cannon / 30cm / AP5+ AT6+ notes: Fearless, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood Biovore Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 15cm / 5+ / 6+ / 6 + Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Spore Mines / 30cm / AP5+ AT6+ / Disrupt, Indirect Fire notes: Walker, Brood Zoanthrope Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 15cm / 4+ / 6+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Warp Blast / 30cm / AP4+ AT4+ AA4+ notes: Brood Hierodule ?A? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 15cm / 4+ / 3+ / 5+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms Acid Spray / 15cm / MW5+ / Ignore cover Huge Claws / Base Contact / MW / +2 attacks notes: DC-3, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood Critical: : Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart; 1-5: The creature loses one DC and one of it?s Monstrous Claw attacks 6: The Hierodule is killed Hierodule ?B? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF WE / 15cm / 4+ / 4+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms 2 x Bio Cannon / 45cm / MW5+ / Ignore Cover Huge Claws / Base Contact / MW / +1 attacks notes: DC-3, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood Critical: : Roll 1D6 and consult the following chart; 1-5: The creature loses one DC and one of it?s Monstrous Claw attacks 6: The Hierodule is killed Exocrine ?A? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 20cm / 4+ / 5+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Spore Cysts / (15cm) / small arms Big Spore Mines / 60cm / 2BP / Disrupt, Indirect Fire notes: Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood Exocrine ?B? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 20cm / 4+ / 5+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Spore Cysts / (15cm) / small arms Bio Cannon / 45cm / MW5+ / Ignore Cover notes: Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood UNCOMMON BROOD CREATURES Ravaner Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 20cm / 4+ / 4+ / 5+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Death Spitter / (15cm) / small arms Scything Talons / Base Contact / Assault Weapon notes: Brood Gargoyle Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 30cm / 0+ / 5+ / 6+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Flesh Borer / (15cm) / small arms Bio Plasmic Attack / Base Contact / Assault Weapon notes: Jump Pack, Brood COMMON BROOD CREATURES Termagaunt Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 15cm / 0+ / 6+ / 6+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Flesh Borer / (15cm) / small arms notes: Infiltrator, Brood Hormogaunt Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF Inf / 20cm / 0+ / 4+ / 0+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Scything Talons / Base Contact / Assault Weapon notes: Infiltrator, Brood Jaldon ![]() |
Author: | Jaldon [ Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:22 am ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
ARE?S IS BUT TO WONDER WHY? Basically these are my excuses for doing what I did so that posters would have a firm foundation from which to support/attack them. This, IMHO, fosters healthy debate rather then hindering it. FIXED SYNAPSE FORMATIONS Allowing Nid players, during a game, to fluctuate the organization of both Swarms, and the synapse creatures controlling them, is not only going to be near impossible to write as a clear rule, but is also overloading poor opponents whom already have to deal with Swarms that grow and shrink in size. As this ability can be more easily covered, and explained, by just giving some Synapse Creatures the ?command? ability I have done so. Note that this doesn?t change the way in which Brood Creatures can be ?slid? from one Swarm into another one, in fact I have purposely made this easier to do. This little fix not only allows the Nid player to slide brood creatures, but removes the time wasted measuring to see which Synapse Creature is closer to what brood creatures. CLAIMING OBJECTIVES Not only does this change make sense, it fits the fluff better, and forces the Nid player to work harder at claiming objectives. IMHO this is a good thing, not a bad thing. BREAK THEIR SPIRIT Not only does this also fit the fluff, and make sense, but it also makes the Synapse Creatures even more of a popular target for opponents to go after. Think of it this way, the Synapse Creatures ARE the Nid army, they run the brood creatures, and form the vital link between the Hive Mind and those creatures. The fewer of them that there are the harder it is going to be for the Hive Mind to control them, in this case I have decided to set that level at 50%, or more, in losses to keep them in line with other armies using this category. TIE BREAKERS Some are going to argue that the loss of brood creatures should be ignored outright as the Hive Mind sees them as little more then living ammunition. I won?t argue that point because I happen to agree with it. However, even the expenditure of large volumes of ammunition on a fruitless effort on the battlefield will have an adverse effect on an army. The Nid army gives one the impression of being an endless stream of little bugs when in fact it really isn?t. If the Nid army was this limitless in numbers then the WH40k histories wouldn?t be talking about how such and such Tyranid invasion was stopped, because it couldn?t be. Because they DO talk about them being stopped we do know that there is a definite limit to their numbers, so even the losses of brood creatures should be represented. HIVE NEXUS GROUP This is actually the original Hive Tyrant Brood from the v1.0 list, and it is going to be a good way to test the possibility of mixed Synapse Groups. It was also added so that playtesters had a stop-gap group to field while I worked out the details of how I want to approach what I am planning on trying. Basically what I have burning in the back of my head is to allow Nid players to form Synapse Groups of anything they like, within a few restrictions. As it stands right now the idea is the Nid player would purchase a Synapse Creature(s) and be allowed to add further Synapse Creatures to it as upgrades, thus a player could form a Synapse Group that contained a Dominatrix and two Tyranid Warriors. LICTORS Off the top I do not feel that the Nids have a huge supply of this highly specialized creature just hanging around all over the place. First and foremost they are in many ways the eyes and ears of the Nid army and stripping them off of other fronts, just to gain a concentration of them at a single battle, would in effect be blinding those other sectors. Second, it wouldn?t be hard to believe that these creatures are almost as hard to spawn as Synapse Creatures, and surely harder to spawn then Genestealers. Together it just doesn?t make sense that there would be a whole host of them available anywhere along the front lines of the war zone. With this thought in mind I have given them a formation limit of ?0-2?. Now I do feel that this may be a bit low, and will probably boost it up to ?0-3?, but I am pretty sure limiting them is a good idea overall. That said, I do have a hard time believing the Nids would have any kind of standard organization for anything, so I have changed the swarm to allow the players to decide how big they want it to be. OLD GAUNTS AND RAVANERS ARE BACK Not only is this one of those ?steps back? I talked about before, but it is also a return to JJ?s original intent for them. Posters should consider their present speeds and classification as infantry as being pretty much solid. Not only is it going to be real difficult to change my mind on this, but it is going to be near impossible to change JJ?s mind on this same issue. That said I would still like to mess with their other stats, and one thought I do have is to lower the Ravaners armor to 5+ and reduce it?s cost to 25pts thus increasing their availability. BIOVORE AS SWARM SUPPORT The Nids have gone from having very limited artillery assets to having more then they really need, so the proposed change to the Biovore (that itself turns it into a Swarm Support Weapon) is a real good idea and I really like it (and big Kudos to the one that dreamed it up). What I would like to try later is to remove the IDF and change it?s weapon range to 45cm. WAR ENGINE REGENERATION I love this idea, as it draws from the old AMTL way of dealing with the Nid WEs, and I cannot rave enough about it. Not only that but it fits the fluff, and makes it possible for a severly wounded Nid WE to stand up and get back into the fight like the lesser creatures, very Nid like in application. Later I may want to try this at 5+ to see if that would be over the top or more in line with these WE costs. THREE DIFFERENT BROOD CREATURE CLASSIFICATIONS Not only does creating three different Brood Creature Classifications allow me to push in three different spawning values, but it also makes a lot of sense fluff wise. Is it hard to believe that Gaunts are the most numerous of all the Brood creatures, that Ravaners and Gargoyles are a bit more specialized and less numerous, and that Armored Brood Creatures are even a bit more specialized and even less numerous? For my part I don?t. One complaint that I do hear a lot from Nid opponents is that the Nid players are always spawning back the best first so that soon the Nid army has few, if any, Gaunts left on the field of battle. In fact the truth should be that the Nid army should tend to flow back toward the same parity in forces as it started with the more it spawned, unless a really determined effort was made to do otherwise. (For some odd reason I keep getting this vision of three Tyranid Warriors peeking into a stand of bushes and clicking, ?Nope Gaunts again we don?t want those?) It would seem more likely that, in the heat of battle, that they would be more then happy to get their claws on whatever they could find in the immediate area rather then scowering the entire battlefield trying to find only the best. Even if we considered that some of the spawned creatures were being brought directly into the fight via spores it wouldn?t change the proportions of available units across the entire army. Again only if a special effort was made to do so would this even have a remoter chance of working while bullets are flying around. Not only do I hope these values work, but combined with brood creatures counting in Tie Breakers, I hope this results in encouraging players to spawn back more of the Gaunts then they have been. Last, I am not real happy with the name ?Armored Brood Creatures? and I am really open fro a new name to give them. OLD UNCOMMON BROOD CREATURES (NOW ARMORED) BACK TO 1/3 JJ want s the Nid army to be an infantry heavy horde, not only do I agree with him but this also is about the only thing that does fit the Nid background fluff. Changing it would require changing the background fluff and that is not in our hands, nor will it be in the near future. However, we have greater control over a good number of the brood creatures that do make up the armored brood creature category, and an idea I am tossing around is to reduce the plethora of MW they have, to reduce costs, and make more of them available. NO MYECETIC SPORE STATS By adding a unit called myecetic spores I immediately began getting requests from other Nid players to increase their stats to make them in line with SM Drop Pods. That is not their mission in Epic-A, they are not directly or indirectly anything like SM Drop Pods, they are far more like Chaos Summoning. Opponents became really confused by a unit that had a data sheet, but whose data amounted to an explanation of a rule already stated under spawning. ?What a unit that doesn?t DO anything?? To put an end to this confusion, and the temptation to turn them into Drop Pods, they are again gone from the unit data sheet. STARTING OFF WITH............................. I want to start off concentrating on the Nid Special Rules, get them clear, legible, and working the way we want them to. This IS very important as it will be impossible to balance the army list if the special rules remain in a constant state of flux. Special rules must be looked at as an unknown quantity and until we know exactly how to apply them, and how they will effect the units/formations of the army, we are wasting our time trying to balance the list. Fortunately most of the real hard work has already been done on the special rules so all we have to do is better define what we want them to do, and then give them clarity so the rest of the world can digest them. This should mean that finishing up this section won?t take too long. In Phase II we will be concentrating on the army?s structure, IE how it is put together, while tackling unit data they may directly effect this work. This also shouldn?t take that long to accomplish In Phase III we will be fleshing out the unit data to fill needed gaps in the army list, and create a more solid structure for the way the army works. Again this shouldn?t really take that long. In Phase IV we will tackling the entire list as a whole, testing it?s play balance, structure, effectiveness, and tweeking what is needed. By this time our lists special rules should be rock solid and the TO&E pretty well fixed, so it shouldn?t be too difficult to identify problems and effect solutions. There is no doubt in my mind this Phase is going to take much longer then the three that come before it. Jaldon ![]() |
Author: | lilith [ Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:11 am ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
Haruspex ?A? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 20cm / 4+ / 3+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms Acid Spray / 15cm / MW5+ / Ignore cover notes: Walker, Reinforced Armor, Thick Rear Armor, Brood Haruspex ?B? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 20cm / 4+ / 3+ / 4+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Cluster Spines / (15cm) / small arms Huge Claws / Base Contact / MW / +2 attacks notes: Walker, Reinforced Armor, Thick Rear Armor, Brood Carnifex ?A? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 15cm / 4+ / 3+ / 6+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Spore Cysts / (15cm) / small arms Huge Claws / Base Contact / MW / +2 attacks notes: Fearless, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood Carnifex ?B? Type/Speed/Armor/CC/FF AV / 15cm / 4+ / 4+ / 5+ Weapons/Range/Firepower/Notes Spore Cysts / (15cm) / small arms 2 x Venom Cannon / 30cm / AP5+ AT6+ notes: Fearless, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Brood Haruspex and carniflex cost the same point but haruspex is better than carny in movement , and fire fight.Maybe Haruspex had to cost more or change its char. ah i forgot to tell the haruspex thick rear armour and carni haven't..... |
Author: | Chroma [ Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:53 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 | ||
I'd like to make a couple of comments about unit stats as well before tackling the special rules. First off: "Monstrous Claws" should give the same number of extra attacks to any creature that has them either +2 or +4 (with a variant name given to weapons that give more or less attacks), to maintain weapons having the same stats across the list. Hive Tyrant Jervis has mentioned that, during the Hammond's World infestation, there was no "Tyrant Guard" and that they should be removed from the Tyrant's stats. ?As well, a whopping *four* TK CC2+ attacks seems vastly overpowered for 100 points, let alone all the unit's other abilities. Synapse Node Fluff: "Ripper Swarms" are more characterful, and are just cosmetically better, it doesn't harm the list at all to let them have this weapon. Rules: As a war engine, the SN needs a critical hit effect. Lesser Synapse Node Why a DC1 War Engine? ?That's the same thing as being a AV so why complicate things with the oddity? ?There is no real need for this and it's unprecedented in published lists. Lictors A design/modelling question here: does anyone base their Lictors 3 to a stand? ?As INF, by the core rules, that's how they need to be based, but I don't know anyone who does this. ?So, do you introduce a special modelling rule that allows you to do 1 per base or just make them LVs? ?In battle, I believe they would be targetted by both kinds of attacks, and that's why I recommend they be made LVs instead of INF. Stats, +2MWCC attacks seems excessive again. ?And why back to RA for them? ?Invulnerable Save seems more appropriate as their defence is dodge/hide, not toughness. Expectorator 3BP, Disrupt 60cm, is just too much for the points, even if you can only get two in a swarm. Biovore and Zoanthrope This is the same modelling problem as the Lictors: do people base these minimum 3 to a stand? ?These two units, especially, seem appropriate as LVs, probably with walker and no need for an agility special rule. Exocrine ?A? 2BP, Disrupt, Indirect at 60cm is just too much for these guys. For, essentially, the cost of the Expectorator, I've got twice the BPs. ?1BP, Disrupt, Indirect 45cm was playtested throughout the WIP and worked great. ?With the ability to garrison off of a Node there's no need for the Tyranids to have starting arty ranges comparable to the Guard. Termagaunt As I've mentioned many times before, the list Jervis initially posted was before the new Tyranid Codex. ?That Codex has, retroactively, made Termagants *much* shootier in their basic form, and this list just needs to accept that. ?The Termagants *are* the basic firefight unit of the Tyranids and FF5+, and 15 points, reflects that very well. ?They are not the (almost completely) useless fodder they were back in earlier editions. More to come! |
Author: | ragnarok [ Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
Right my go. First off love the synpase nexus group. From what your saying am I right in assuming that you are planning on (eventually) having it that we buy synpase individually and before the battle form them into synapse groups (so I could have two tyrants working togethers or a dominatrix and a LSN). Special rules all well writen and liked except Regeneration. Don't like this incarnation. The dominatrix and Hydraphant have a 74% chance of regenerating at least one DC, each turn I would prefer that the number of dice rolled equal DC remaining or half initial DC (or at a push DC lost) Tie breaker. I don't like brood creatures costing VP, especially with independants costing 200% and synpase costing 300%. maybe have them worth 50% of their VP? Spawning. Ye Gods. 3pips to get back a biovre ![]() i would prefer the following first evolutionary itteration; cost 1 pip Gargoyles, Termigaunts, hormagaunts second evolutionary itteration; cost 2 pips Zoanathropes, biovores, Raveners third evolutionary itteration; cost 3 pips Carnifex, haruspex, Exocrine fourth evolution itteration; cost 9 pips Hierodule It also gives a better name than armoured brood, "third (evolutionary) itteration" Units As well as whats have said Lictors I don't like the cap on lictors. True they are normally rare, but so are guard tank companies but they don't get caps so they can take the rare tabnk army. Similarly I would like to be able to take vanguard army filled with lictors and Gargoyle flocks lead by Harridans. Haruspex “B" ![]() LSN. If I could afford it I would take a GSN over one of these. Being a WE means it can be targeted seperatly from the brood it is mothering and scupper any plan on keeping them from going to ground. Tyrant Shouldn't have TK attacks, especailly that many. If any little bug should then it would be the carnie, the anti tank guy. |
Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
I know nothing about tyranids but I do now about artillary. Somebody try a list with 13 exocrines in will you? Maybe backed up with 4 of the big rt peieces. 38 disrupt bp a turn. Would be fun in its own way.(with 1-2000 points for brood and synapse stuff depending on how many of the big ones.) 6bp disrupt is the same as 500 points of av 6+ manticores. Except these are harder to suppress and kill and can fire every turn. Exocrines forward deployed though may have the artillary edge though. And its not like you can easily air assualt them. |
Author: | ragnarok [ Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
Two other points Haruspex “A” should get some FF weaponry bonus. Its acid spray is FF ranged but doesn't help it in a FF? Also both Exocrines should have a reduced move 10-15 cm. since they are artillery not rapid responce. |
Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
I'll take a shot... =========== Swarm Rules: Nothing but praise. I think this cleaned them up nicely and allows shuffling around broods with a relatively simple mechanic. A great improvement. Spawning: 2 suggestions. First, you might consider a "Brood mother" special ability rather than just saying Dominatrices get +1d6. That would allow for future lists to have different units with a spawning bonus. Second, simplify the brood designation/points rules. Instead of a long string of "this type takes so many points, that type takes so many points..." just put the notation "Brood (x)" on the data sheets, where X is the number of points needed to spawn. This is simpler and could allow more customization of spawning costs from unit to unit if desired. It also eliminates the need for the subdivision of Common/Uncommon. T1.50 missing? Victory conditions: Fine by me. One suggestion on brood creatures in the tie-breaker. It would be simpler to just say Brood creatures count 1/2 points rather than per 2 units of a type. Much easier to calculate and doesn't open the door for fiddly min-maxing of casualties as "1 carnie, so no points, 3 haruspex, so only points for 1..." and so on. Synapse: Editorial, but I would not call them all "groups." I'd leave that for combos like the Tyrant/Warrior mix. Independent: I REALLY like the restriction on Lictor swarms and completely agree with your reasoning. Editorial, but I would drop the Phant Swarm and just list them. Armored Broods: Very glad to see the 1/3 restriction. The name implies that they should be LVs and AVs. I also think that having things like Zoanthropes and Biovores as 1 model/stand LVs is a good idea. I made a suggestion above regarding spawning costs. Data sheets ========= The consistency issue on claw stats has been addressed already. Harridan/Vituperator: IMHO, these have suffered most from Nid inflation. I especialy think that the Harridan should be lighter - either dropped to 2DC or to 5+RA from 4+RA. As it stands, it's nastier by a wide margin than DC3 WEs in other lists and its only drawback is that it comes out of the Synapse alotment. I can live with a DC5 Vituperator, but I'd still sort of like to see a DC4 version. Hive Tyrant: I agree 4xTK weapons are too much. Editorial, but I would phrase the wings option exactly like the Daemon Prince in the BL list. Expectorator: Too much. At 250 points, it has almost the firepower of an IG battery, and due to WE status, armor value, Nid BM exemption, and CC/FF values is vastly tougher. 2 BP would be plenty. Otherwise, this thing is pushing 350 points imho. Biovores/Zoanthropes: The big question is LV v Infantry status. Heirodule: While the points look about right to me with the current stats, this is also a victim of the Nid inflation. I'd like to see this considered as a DC 2 version. This is especially true if we are given the green light on including a Trygon, which I would assume would be larger (DC 3-4). Editorial, the Critical for the "B" references Monstrous claws, but it only has Huge claws. Exocrine: Similar to my comments on the Expectorator, this has the firepower and cost of IG arty, with many other benefits. 1BP is plenty. Termagaunts: I agree that they are now much shootier and could reasonably deserve a better FF value. |
Author: | Jaldon [ Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:17 am ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
Whew what a lot to go over, but be sure I have read them all. First off thanks all on the special rules suggestions, they are all excellent, and will be properly implimented. Unit Stats As I said before I was taking a step back, and this is basically the older list with a few minor changes. These stats WILL be changing and they will be gotten up in due course. For those players that wish to 'cut the corner' and give them a try, in general just cut the weaponry back a bit, 50% would be a good margin to base it on. Typo, Termagaunts should have been FF5+, sorry Claw issues will be straightened out. Artillery Units will be getting a major overhaul, one of the weakest points of the Nid lists thus far. Carnifex and Haruspex will look nothing alike soon. Ripper Swarms on Nodes, is much better for fluff thanks, but keep at it because I'll probably screw it up again later. Lesser Nodes can teleport, Greater Nodes cannot, that is the reason for getting them. More Direct Comment The list is being designed for the GT scenario, if players want to play a game outside that they can lift any restrictions placed, and always have been able to. The logic of comparing an IG Tank Company that costs 650pts to having 8 LIctor swarms that cost 150pts doesn't work. The IG Company's cost is self limiting all by itself. The Lictors remain limited, for the reasons I have already stated. I like the Brood (x) for Spawn designation, would make it easier to assign values as needed by unit capabilities/availabilities then trying to cram them into a category. Getting these right IS going to take a bit of work. Tie Breakers Ooooooops! Yes this would be really silly. Truth is I wasn't thinking too clearly when I typed this from my notes, it should have been be x2, x1, x1/2. Though I will be changing it to 1/2 a Brood Creatures points rounded down per unit. Gaunts will continue to cost a Nid player points in a Tie Breaker for the reasons I have already stated. There will be more as I digest this all, thanks for all the input. Jaldon ![]() |
Author: | Chroma [ Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:21 am ] | ||
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 | ||
I think one question on Lesser Nodes is what's the intent of making them 1DC war engines? It is just to allow them to be targetted more easily by the enemy? Because as war engines, they can basically be sniped out of their swarm unless there's Hierodules around. |
Author: | Jaldon [ Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:28 am ] |
Post subject: | [Lists] Tyranid v6.0 |
Lesser Nodes are a quick cheap way to teleport a whole host of Nid Creatures right into the opponents back door, all for 30 points it's a bargin. Making them WE will make the Nid player have to think a bit harder about their placement, and make them less likely to be just hurled around as I have seen in a couple of games already. So yes the intention is to make them more vulnerable, and good placement more difficult. Now we will see how it goes. Jaldon ![]() |
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