Tactical Command
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Other: Phases
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Author:  lackofbrain [ Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Other: Phases

You seem to be implying that the forces are actually created as needed by the dominatrix or hive node from the mycetic spore clouds. I don't see it this way. I always assumed that mycetic spores were a little like drop pods - a kind of disposable creature which burns away as it passes through the atmosphere, but allows a creature inside to reach the ground mostly unscathed. Each spore contains only one creature, and not all will make it, due to some landing badly, some not providing enough protection and the ocupant being roasted as it falls, and some being shot down by enemy opportunity fire. All creatures are spawned by the norn queens on board the ships and then land in mycetic spores. synapse nodes and other creatures linked to the hive mind act like beacons that are more easily targeted, so in the heat of battle this is where they come down. Ripper swarms may be grown on-planet perhaps, but something as complex as a dominatrix, and even a tyranid warrior is not.

The other point at which I disagree (and it's a far more minor point) is where the genestealer cults emerge. Genesealer cults emerge independantly of any other tyranid forces at the point they are powerful enough to wrest control of the planet. I'm sure there is mention somewhere of a planet that had a genestealer cult totally controlling it being approached by tyranids and the cult actually trying to fight them off. Remember genestealers are the first bastion of a hive fleet and can opperate entirely independantly of any tyranid hive mind, instead creating their own. After a few generations of this their hive mind is unconnected to the hive fleet, and probably as inscruitable to any outsiders. Of course there are other stories of genestealer cults simply walking willingly into the hive fleets to be torn apart and recreated as something else....

I love the idea of a hive ship crash landing to bring large volumes of troops to the battle instantly. You just know it would do it right on top of an outlieing but important city.

Random thought about phase five - consumption: Perhaps as the nids have no groud to space craft that we know of, the largest hive nodes will grow out of the atmosphere and hive ships will kind of dock at the top so material can be brought up to the fleet like a space elevator. The roots of these nodes even burrow all the way down into the mantle and start drawing energy for all this straight from the geothermal heat of the planet, leaving the planet not only lifeless, but incapable of ever supporting life again as it is a cold, dead ball of rock that has probably even been drawn out of orbit, to eventualy fall into its sun or drift off forever into space. Hey, perhaps this is all a gigantic game of pool the Norn Queens are playing with the Slaan!

(okay, maybe not...)

Loz

Author:  lackofbrain [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Other: Phases

Nodes grow on planets, that I don't doubt. But a dominatrix is second only to a Norn Queen, is it not? I remain highly unconvinced that they grow on planet. I think it more likely that they grow on the fleet. Perhaps there are far larger mycetic spores that drop things like that. Or perhaps there are creatures capable of travelling fleet to plaet, but they have no combat utility. not everything in the hive fleet neccesarily has symbiotic weapons. Or perhaps three or four vituerators working together could carry a dominatrix or a biotitan. Maybe something akin to spore mines are used to lower the things gently to the surface. Obviously this would be far too slow to do in battle as it would be easy to shot them down, but off a battlefield, if you first drop a few thousand gargoyles, and a haridan or twelve to control them, then I think you could create a half hour or so window to drop the beast. Hydraphants are described as ancient and kind of kranky I believe (don't have the file to hand to check...), so surely they are brought down from on high!

Loz

Author:  ragnarok [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Other: Phases

I can't see the phase Diagram  :( .  The link thats me to a blank page.

However Some ideas on the comments raised.

I believe that mycetic spores contain entire broods of creatures.  It is possible that the creatures are not fully grown.  Instead the spore, supplies them with nutrients and they rapidlymature, within minutes they first lot reaches full size, as the spore lands.

It then grows roots to aquire more nutrients and the rest of its cargo are grown.  Thus a spore slightly larger than a marine drop pod could carry a few score gaunts.

(this idea is an extrapilation of mine after reading warrior of ultrima: first space battle)

As for the larger boyz.  They could use a similar concept.  Since they don't appear in the initial assault.  It is possible that drop eggs are.. well dropped into areas that the nids have gained control of.  These rapidily grow into the biotian and BWEs.  Not quite sure hw you get a norn queen down there to ride the dominatrix though.

Another idea is that smaller drone ships ebnter verylow orbits (other races escorts can land so ours should) and then "deposit" fully formed biotitans (Ref: storm of iron).  Again the area will need to be held first, to avoid losing the bioship.  This way avoids energy lose in the whole build-dissolve-reclaim-dissolve cycle.

As for genestealer cults fighting a hive fleet.  It is possible.  In a WD about 3 or 4 years back their was an article about how creatures from different hive fleets have difficulty understanding each other (ie a warrior from kraken might not be able to co-ordinate hormagaunts from beamouth).

Thus if a hivefleet stumbles across a planet that has a stealer cult from another fleet,they will only see it as food (since hivefleets do attack each other).  However if the parent fleet comes along (or a closely related one) then the genestealer cult will come under their control, by the hive mind controling the patriarch who controls the cult.  Remember that patriarchs send out psychic homing beacons when the cult gets to a certain size.  They are not independant.  (Okay I have a theory that says some of them are but that isn't offical canon, heck it isn't even writen down, but it combines RT stealers from Ymgarl with the modern incarnation without saying a warpstorm did it).

Lack of brain
consumption: Perhaps as the nids have no groud to space craft that we know of, the largest hive nodes will grow out of the atmosphere and hive ships will kind of dock at the top so material can be brought up to the fleet like a space elevator

Ie become capillary towers.  Indeed this is how fluff says the planet is eaten, sucked up though a straw.  :p

Author:  ragnarok [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Other: Phases

Yeah it works :D .  Thanks Hena.  One major comment on crashing hiveship.

NO!  Hive ships are to be prtected at all costs, send in a cruiser or a score of escort drones, you can't crash a Hiveship.  It contains mother!

Author:  ragnarok [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Other: Phases

Quote (Hena @ 05 Jan. 2006 (12:08))
I'm ?not accepting that they mature within seconds thank you :8):.

Go on. ?Accept it. ?you know you want to.

We have bio titans that regenerate, which is rapid growth.

Not much differance...is there?

Author:  lackofbrain [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Other: Phases

also, regenerating biotitans and the like - its not necesaarily that bits are regrowing that fast, simply that other creatures inside the biotitan will swarm to a damaged point and act kind of like platelets with attitude. There is a reference in the novel Space Marine (yes I know, it's rogue trader era - but frankly it's so much fun - marines are homoerotic space nazis!)  to bat-like creatures swarming down passage ways to bind together and seal the breach created by the marines cuting their way through a wall with melta weapons. I think of regeneration as something similar - symbiotic creatures sealing breaches and repairing damage faster than the creature could regrow its self.

Space Marine also contains Spike Fields however, one of the silliest tyranid creatures ever concieved (they are basically a hand for grabbing a victims head, a spike for ramming repeatedly into their torso and a torso/head to connect the two. They move by bouncing. And Zoats, the tyranid diplomats. They were directly responsible for the destruction of an entire marine chapter - they managed to convince the chapters high command to come to peace negotiations, then devoured the entire chapter when they weren't expecting it.

Author:  ragnarok [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Other: Phases

Gotta love RT era fluff. The spike things are now grabber slashers, a kind of assassin bug, give me a lictor any day.

With the platelet things, correct me if I'm wrong (t'was many a year ago that I read the story) weren't they boarding a hiveship or some such.

Finally where is the zoat story?  I've heard about it, but not its title or anything.  Or maybe it was another one when a zoat ripped off a marines head.

Author:  lackofbrain [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Other: Phases

Grabber Slasher is an equally sily name... I seem to recall the sergeant shooting he thing then complaining that it was made from dna from OUR galaxy damnit and these bugs had no right to kill OUR orks!

Yes they are boarding a hive ship. In a boarding torpedo that is longer than it is wide and has rounded ends. Through what appears to be the things anus...

I think the zoat thing is mentioned in Space Marine, although I can't remember how they know. Wasn't it the Howling Griffons who all died like that? As for a zoat ripping someone's head off - I seem to remember something similar happening in Space Marine too, but it's been a while since I read it, and I borrowed it off a friend in the first place so I can;t go back and check. Personally I think they should bring back zoats, but then I've always had a thing for cavalry... At some point I want to build a rough rider regiment, either for epic or for 40K. Either that or White Scars...

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