Tactical Command
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[HR] Harridan discussion
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5121		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Chroma [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  [HR] Harridan discussion
Markonz

Regarding Harridans:
I'm not saying harridans are not effective for their points (indeed the reverse is true!) I would like to see them toned down. Orginally their role was a synapse source and boost for gargoyles rather than anything else - now they are a deadly combat unit insteadl - which can even transport Hive Tyrants! ? ?

Ie the problem with Harridans is that they have been priced and given abilities which destroy their original role of being a suitable synapse source for gargoyles - gargoyles currently have no way to get cheap synapse). To bring this back in line I would like to see something like the following which should justify a points reduction (to 100 points):

-DC3 (and critical kills outright same as other SHT - harridan models are relatively small - I'm not sure why it has been given so much DC at present, especially when a dom only has 6 DC currently!!), CC4+ (they have delicate wings to protect and shouldn't have the same prowess as titans ), FF4+ (Bioplasma Breath should make FF potential nastier).

- Gargantuan claws - replace with Monstrous claws and make them MW... (a flappy bird thing just shouldn't have the strength of a titan).

- Biocannons - make Venom cannons. 30cm Ap5/AT6. These guns just are not that big on the model (eg compare to exocrine, dominatrix cannon), plus it already has a nasty MW breath attack and long range shooting does not suit this creatures primary role of being synapse for Gargoyles.

- Can transport up to 6 gargoyles (ie one 40k brood). Leave the other transport options for the vituperator. The vituperator probably also needs work but I'll leave that for another day...


Okay, I cut this from the other thread to give it a place to be discussed

Are people using the Harridan? ?How's it working? ?Is it too tough, too weak? ?When I compare it to a Tyrant with wings, it's obviously way better! ?*laugh* ?But I think that's partly "wings" being a little expensive.

I can appreciate and even go for a lot of the changes above. ?Does anyone know what the Forge World 40k Harridan has listed for its "wing weapons"?
Author:  Markconz [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  [HR] Harridan discussion
My original suggestion for the hive tyrant was that wings were free... but armour went down to 5+ RA rather than 4+ RA - in line with the 40k provision that tyrants with wings cannot have Extended Carapace (which makes them twice as vulnerable to most small arms).

Even with my proposed changed stats above, the harridan is still looking too good for the points though...
Compare it with another DC3 War Engine like an ork battlefortresss (125 points).  Reducing its FF and CC by 1 each, and just giving it one MW attack instead of two might help.
Author:  Gun_Hit [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  [HR] Harridan discussion
Certainly for 150pts the Harridan is way too cheap, especially as its a Synapse. I would certainly be tempted to replace all my Tyrants with Harridans   :D

I would agree with the reduction in armour value as inherently flying creatures will not be able to pack as much armour as the ground based critters. Instead relying on agility to avoid being hit.

Would also agree with the rest of Markonz comments, especially with the Bio Cannons as the times I have used it I have just sat back and used it as a mobile firing platform.
Author:  ragnarok [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  [HR] Harridan discussion
I'll try getting some in my games in the new year.

If we are to change their carriage capacity, I would reduce it to Gargoyles and raveners.  Since it doesn't really need to carry gargoyles since their is little differance between Move 30 and move 35.

However, if we ever get orbital assest done.  I'm willing to drop its capacity down to just gargoyles, if it gets planet fall.
Author:  ragnarok [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  [HR] Harridan discussion
Quote (Hena @ 14 Dec. 2005 (12:03))
No planetfalling critters IMHO. If planetfall is wanted then we should use mycetic spores for that.

I have to disagree here.

The first wave an a planetary assault usual involves Harridans (and Vituperators now that they've been evolved) dropping down and releasing clouds of gargoyles.

There is a nice short story in some WD (when nids had their big rerelease about 5 years back) in which this tactic is used.

Besides they are an space based race.  They must have orbital drop assets of some kind.  I've also have a cool image in my head for harridans dropping down from low orbit drone ships.  Head first, wings folded around themselves, with a protective layer of mucus surrounding them.

Maybe I'll give it a go drawing that (once i figure out which edge of a pencil I use).  Convince everyone that Harridans should have planet fall because I spent ages doing the artwork of it for the rule book.  :D
Author:  ragnarok [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  [HR] Harridan discussion
Quote (Hena @ 14 Dec. 2005 (12:23))
If someone gives a good reason on how someone can cross space / atmosphere "barrier" then ok. But so far I haven't been able to figure that out. All the things would burn in drop. Only way to do this is have the mycetic spore.

If Harridans are dropped like that then they cannot stop... flapping wings on those speeds are pretty useless assuming they don't rip off on unfurling :D.

They are 'nids, they can do anything.  :D

For a bit more sanity.  They could have expendable re-entry plate animals.  Creatures bredd to preform the job of heat shields.  Once they get to a certain altitude they blow away and secondary decent organisiums are used to slow the dropping harridan, by firing jets of highly combustable gases downwards (and igniting them) to give a resistive force.
Author:  Chroma [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  [HR] Harridan discussion
Quote (ragnarok @ 14 Dec. 2005 (12:16))
Head first, wings folded around themselves, with a protective layer of mucus surrounding them.

MmmmMmMmm... protective mucus!
Author:  ragnarok [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  [HR] Harridan discussion
Just to put the forgeworld (40k) spin on this little birdie.

Its bio cannons are the same as the barbed heirodule.

It doesn't have a breath attack

Its cything talons are 6m long.

Its top speed is believed to be 200km/h though recorded is only half that.

Armour save one pip worst than heirodules but one more mass point.

My idea of a solution.  Keep everything but the breath weapon.  Give the biocannons AA 6+ forward arc.
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