Tactical Command
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[Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5096		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
(Thanks for the comments on my WIP list, folks, I'll try and get to commenting on it later today.)

As I was going over the Tyranid special rules I realized an assumption I had made was not warranted by what was written!  I'd just assumed that spawning replaced regrouping for all actions, not just the Marshal action!  While playing, whenever a synapse creature failed an action test, if there were no enemy nearby, I'd just have them spawn.  

Is this how other people have been playing or is this a major mistake on my part?  Should the rules be changed to always replace regroup with spawn or should the Marshal action be the only time Tyranids are allowed to spawn?
Author:  ragnarok [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
I say allow it, but without being able to call in mycetic spores.
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
Quote (Hena @ 15 Nov. 2005 (13:36))
It might be slightly too good to be honest.

How have you played it Hena?

It makes a teleported Lesser Node that fails its action test pretty vulnerable... and they're already pretty vulnerable to start.

Hena, I've gotten the impression from you that you think, in general, the Tyranids are a little too good.  Actually, I agree with you.  I feel the only reason I've lost any games with them is because of inexperience.  So, how do we remedy this?  Tyranids should be terrifying to face, but we want them to be fun to play against.  All my opponents have had fun, but then, we're all friends and enjoy playtesting and experimenting with rules.

Of the two most basic options to "balance" the list, do you think increasing points (mayhaps only slightly!) or decreasing abilities is the way to go?  

(Anyone else can answer too!  *laugh*)
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
Quote (Chroma @ 15 Nov. 2005 (12:55))
(Thanks for the comments on my WIP list, folks, I'll try and get to commenting on it later today.)

As I was going over the Tyranid special rules I realized an assumption I had made was not warranted by what was written!  I'd just assumed that spawning replaced regrouping for all actions, not just the Marshal action!  While playing, whenever a synapse creature failed an action test, if there were no enemy nearby, I'd just have them spawn.  

Is this how other people have been playing or is this a major mistake on my part?  Should the rules be changed to always replace regroup with spawn or should the Marshal action be the only time Tyranids are allowed to spawn?

I had this exact discussion with the guys I play with.  Our conclusion was that it states specifically in the Spawning rules that it is the Marshall action, not regrouping.  If the Nids fail, no spawn.

I have a vague memory of Maksim at one point saying that was the intent, but even if my brain isn't playing tricks on me it was  several versions of the list ago and may not be relevant.
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
Quote (Hena @ 15 Nov. 2005 (14:38))
Well the point is that I've played 10 games. And I've won all of them. Now I admit that some of those are against new players, but still...

What armies have you squared off against in that 10, Hena?

Could you post one of your "typical" armylists?
Author:  Markconz [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
If the nids fail activation no spawn - that's how we have been playing it.
Author:  jty3 [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
I have just started playing the Nids list with my friends and we have been playing it where if you fail you don't get to spawn because spawning is specifically a marshall action, which is different from a regrouping action.  

They may do similar things for other armies but since tyranids have no blast markers, they don't get to spawn by default just because they fail an action test.  At least this seems to be the most accurate reading of the rules for us.
Author:  tneva82 [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
Quote (Chroma @ 15 Nov. 2005 (13:46))

Of the two most basic options to "balance" the list, do you think increasing points (mayhaps only slightly!) or decreasing abilities is the way to go?  

(Anyone else can answer too!  *laugh*)


IMO biggest problem with tyranids lies with no blast markers. This means it's hard to slow them down(no -1BM for activation) and extremely hard time you are going to have winning combats against them! And even when you do thanks to no BM modifiers casualties are likely going to be...Well small.

Albeit I have faced them only once but with my orks assaults were losing battle. Only times I won assaults it was because I FF'ed them with strong grot screen front. Victory but casualties were minimal.

When tyranids assaulted bang ork formation dead.

With crappy shooting of orks I was puzzled at how to clear path toward objectives.

Atleast the artirelly that caused so much annoyance to me(mostly by refusing to die regardless of what I did!) has been nerfed a bit. Atleast I'm not totally outclassed in shooting to top of all!

But if somebody can give hints on how to get past tyranid swarm without heavy shooting(what orks don't generally possess) I would be interested  :D Just in case I run against those bugs again...
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
I'm surprised, tneva.  In the handful of games I've played against them I've never had a problem winning assaults v Nids with Orks.  Possibly that has to do with my regular opponent's typical list, but I find that I'm usually able to set up assaults exactly how I want to maximize the chances to win.  I usually push them back quite effectively.

The problem I've found is that winning assaults simply doesn't gain you much.  The Nids don't break.  The SCs are Fearless.  Even if you beat them over and over, they eventually wear you down by 1-2 casualties at a time and they can spawn back indefinitely.  Eventually, they win from sheer attrition.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
Quote (tneva82 @ 17 Nov. 2005 (15:50))
But if somebody can give hints on how to get past tyranid swarm without heavy shooting(what orks don't generally possess) I would be interested ?:D Just in case I run against those bugs again...

Hey tneva82!

Please take a look at the battle report I posted in which Orks pasted my 'Nids 2-0

Scroll down a bit to get to the meat.

What's your "usual" Ork army composition?
Author:  tneva82 [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Spawning on a failed action test
Quote (nealhunt @ 17 Nov. 2005 (16:42))
I'm surprised, tneva.  In the handful of games I've played against them I've never had a problem winning assaults v Nids with Orks.  Possibly that has to do with my regular opponent's typical list, but I find that I'm usually able to set up assaults exactly how I want to maximize the chances to win.  I usually push them back quite effectively.

The problem I've found is that winning assaults simply doesn't gain you much.  The Nids don't break.  The SCs are Fearless.  Even if you beat them over and over, they eventually wear you down by 1-2 casualties at a time and they can spawn back indefinitely.  Eventually, they win from sheer attrition.

I'm surprised, tneva.  In the handful of games I've played against them I've never had a problem winning assaults v Nids with Orks.  Possibly that has to do with my regular opponent's typical list, but I find that I'm usually able to set up assaults exactly how I want to maximize the chances to win.  I usually push them back quite effectively.


They have comparable fight values and numbers but no BM modifidiers, ever.

If I didn't have grot screen up I was fighting losing battle. Hormies for example are just as good in CC and cheaper than ork boyz. Top of that since they are infiltrators they could initiate CC at will while I would be struggling at that.

For FF termagaunts mixed and they fight back twice as hard. Raveners are nasty as well.

Basicly we would trade casualties pretty evenly but after grot screen went out(and those are fastly depleted resources, even on my screw nobz, get more grots attitude. 2 nobz, 12 boyz, 8 grots is IMO better formation than 4 nobz, 12 boyz, 4 grots) outnumber(they are cheaper) and +2 for BM's tipped the balance.

When I won assaults(early in game) results were somethin akin to 1 or 2 bug stand killed and I'm ready for their assault. Usually with grot shield already spent.

So let's say winning in itself wasn't too much of problem. Problem was a) winning in good enough margin that to be noticable and b) winning WITHOUT grot screen as due to point a and the fact they aren't broken those grot screens vanish at fearsome rate.

I started the game with grot numbers probably lot higher than most of average ork armies with same number of warbands(3) but those just don't survive(hey not even their job!). Once they were out it's crunch time for tyranids. THEN winning even assaults comes nuts.

I hate to think what tyranids could have done had he realised just WHAT those grots are able to do and taken more preparations against them.

Albeit situation has been helped a bit(no more mega artirelly to soften my warbands so badly!) but assaults still are going to be nightmare.



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