Tactical Command
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Rules: Initiative & Strategy Rating
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5058		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  N0-1_H3r3 [ Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules: Initiative & Strategy Rating
I think Initiative 1+ is too potent for Tyranids - given that they can't suffer from Blast Markers, it does mean that they'll always pass a first activation, and pass a retained action on a 2+. Making them seem relentless is one thing, making them almost infallable (where activation is concerned) is another.
Author:  ferrumvir [ Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules: Initiative & Strategy Rating
Hi,

At the moment I play without a Supreme Commander (not painted as mentioned else where). Without it, I very rarely risk retaining the initiative. If Initiative was changed to 1+ then I've have almost no incentive to use the dominatrix.

I thought a better (more characterful) idea would be (should it need changing) to give Tyranids a +1 initiative if engaging.

Sorry Hena, I've not read any of the other thread (not enough lunch hour!), so this may have already been suggested/binned.

Cheers Scott
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules: Initiative & Strategy Rating
Quote (Hena @ 23 Oct. 2005 (20:36))
I just remembered a thread that was talking about strategy and (what I considered more important :D) initiative. This was cut off as the forum change happened and now I'm intrested to revisit this topic.

So should the Tyranid Initiative be 1+ instead of 2+? I find it more believable fluff vise, but would it be too good for Tyranids?

Absolutely not.  They should never have above a 2+.  With no BMs to subtract activation, that's bad enough.

Besides, Initiative rating is about far more than just discipline and willingness to follow orders.  Obviously, if it were just discipline, Nids would be tops.  However, it includes all manner of things outside of that - communication, the ability of the commanders to perceive the battle conditions and issue the correct orders, the ability of the troops receiving the orders to modify them if the conditions warrant, etc..  Tyranids have problems in a lot of those areas.

For example, if the SM commander says "take out the bunker on hill 101" and the SMs by 101 see that there is nothing there, they can reasonably be expected to exercise personal initiative and go destroy the bunker on Hill 102 next door.  Nids, not so much.  If the hive mind misinterprets part of the datastream coming from its basic and possibly confused minions and issues the wrong orders, the Nids wander off to the wrong spot and gaze into their navels (or yolk sacs as the case may be).

Likewise, if a SM is temporarily out of communication, he can be expected to survey the situation and take tactical action.  The Hive Mind is fluid and can have temporary gaps that are less than the "going to ground" results.  In those cases, the swarms simply don't behave in a beneficial matter.

Either of those situations would be reflected by rolling a "1" for activation.
Author:  ragnarok [ Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules: Initiative & Strategy Rating
Yopur lucky Hena.  I roll 1s for every thing bar Ld.  Then its a double 6. :angry:
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Rules: Initiative & Strategy Rating
Since there is no command structure as such and communication is instantenious it should create quite a strong ability to react to whatever happens.


First, there is definitely a command structure, or there wouldn't be a need for Synapse Creatures at all.  It may work far differently than what we would attribute to human-like minds, but it is a hierarchy.  That structure can be and is disrupted as the nids take combat damage.  It's also not necessarily instantaneous.

Second, I think it's clear that tactically important details are sometimes missed. Possibly they suffer from too much info and can't always sort exactly what is most important from the background noise.  Possibly they may not perceive certain types of information.  Maybe their alien minds just don't "get it" with respect to certain information humans would consider important.

Third, even with neither of those factors the Hive Mind can make mistakes.  Even if the Hive Mind never broke down and it could process every bit of data from every Nid in contact with the enemy, that would still not necessarily be enough to make battlefield decisions with the omniscient certainty of the player's viewpoint.  There would be gaps in tactical information that would cause hesitation and outright error.
Author:  Jaldon [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Rules: Initiative & Strategy Rating
(1) The average Tyranid has no personal initiative, and this includes the Synapse Creatures on the battlefield. They are in effect not self aware

So while the Nids would have a command structure that would be difficult to directly disrupt, you can also count on the lesser creatures never taking action on their own. They would stand around and look really stupid even if somebody left the door to the command bunker open.

(2) There is a definite command chain in the Tyranid Army, it would be impossible for them to function otherwise as the Nid creatures in control would be quickly overloaded with information and unable to react/act.

Therefore the lower Synapse Creatures in the comand chain are needed not only to control the lesser brood creatures, but to also disceminate information for the Synapse Creatures above them, otherwise those same creatures would become overwhelmed with information.

Think of it this way, if a Norn Queen was able to see everything every Nid creature under her control could see she would be so inundated with useless information as to be incapable of making any kind of decision. Therefore the Synapse Creatures between her and the lesser creatures are needed to 'bleed off' the useless information and only send forward the important information. Then, and only then, can she reach a decision and pass the needed information back down the line.

To even make this kind of structure work is going to require at least two more levels of command and control between the Norn Queen and the Synapse Creatures on the battlefield in control of the lesser creatures or information overload would force the system to shut down.

It would only take one genetic fault in the eye structure of a synapse creature (like a bolter bolt, though in this case a non-fatal hit) to cause the information to become faulty and cause a halt to activities in an area.

Well just my 2 cents anyways.....

Jaldon :p
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