just saw that the 1/3 restriction for war engines is still in there.
Any plans to change that?
'cause if that stays, the list is (in addition to my not being happy with the swarming) no fun to me anymore. I have mostly the basic units and Tyrgons, Harridans and one of each Titans. I am not planning on buying all the other units in the list (Exocrine, Genestealer, Dactylis, Biovore tec.) just to be able to play this list other than fielding lots and lots of boring standard swarms.

It's a swarm list at its heart, so you're going to have to field some of them. The 2014 playtest list still has the restriction, although it's now in a separate category (ie, they're not independent in that).

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some restrictions with respect to WE are ok IMO, but I yesterday when building a list I found it too restrictive. It's not that a Harridan for example is much more powerful than a Baneblade for example, and there are nor restrictions for the latter.

Especially the SC counting towards the restriction should be removed.

Where can I find the 2014 playtest list (supposedly 10.2.2)?

cheers,

One thread down:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26854

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EDIT: You beat me to it Dave!


You can find it here.

The points you have rased on WE restrictions in general and the dominatrix in particular have been discussed. Like you'll see in the proposed list. The dominatrix don't count against WE-restriction and you're allowed to take two.

So for instance you could take 2 x dominatrix and 2 x hierodule.

War engines don't count against the number of independent swarms either which also makes a WE heavier list easier to build as it decreases the number of swarms needed.

Hi!

thanks!

I have to say that with 3000 points I rather feel that 2 Dominatrix and an additional 1000 points of war engines seems OP
LOL

Well the limit on WE is set to 25% for the playtest list, so it's "only" 2 D's + 750 pts at 3000

I'd agree on the 2 Dom front, but some people asked for it so it's worth some playtesting time I think. If you can post batreps or game synopsis that would help a lot.

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I've not followed the development of the list but played it twice (fredmans and Largo) at the EEC, both were really nice guys and had lovely armies but I found it a very frustrating list to play against
- my first game I spent most of the 2nd turn stunned that nearly every formation can auto-rally. Like living metal some rules need to be studied from the POV of the opponent, in addition I'm not sure if messing around with core mechanics is the best plan. Fair enough if they had 2+ init but at 1+ so its automatic?
- they don't feel that 'tyranidy'. Their shooting seems to be pretty strong compared to their assault power, they only really get really good at assaults in later turns when the swarms are enormous.
- enormous swarms, that swarms can spawn bigger than when they started means that by turn 3 any surviving swarms are huge and basically unbreakable.
- Dominatrix, seems to be statted and act as a WE artillery blitz guard. Must be one of the best artillery units in the game.

The list as a whole seemed to be difficult to win with (except by VPs) as it doesn't have much offensive power but also difficult to lose with as once a swarm gets on an objective it grows and becomes immovable. (I believe in 10 games the list only lost once to BT mech eldar)

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I was asked to report the games from the EEC here. I don't know every turn or unit order, so this is going to be rather "sloppy". Please forgive me on that.

Game one against Tau
Pretty tough one. Borkas Ballers marched on the table, with a couple of recon formations, firewarriors and Hammerheads. Tau can negate most cover with their marker lights, are very mobile, have useful air. Only weakpoint: No good FF units and no BP.
The game was good overall. This was mostly due to my opponent playing very defensely, otherwise I would have been toast. Some missed activations here and there and a small mistake regarding his Orca drop saved my forces enough time to roll over one flank while holding the other with minimal effort. Dominatrix not worth her price as a SC DC4.

Game two against Eldar
Well... Tough game against Rug. He played double Guardians in Wave Serpents coupled with two Revenants. THIS is exactly the force which Tyranids can't handle. Too much Skimmers, nothing really stays in one place, fast, three activations, high strategy value, badass FF...
The fact, that the only useful scouts are the genestealers (who have no Small Arms) doesn't help either. The normal formations are either too slow when an Exocrine is included, lack the punch in FF/CC if no "big guy" is taken, are too expensive if Dactylises are taken AND is too slow. Biovores can't be everywhere and also make the swarm too slow. The Dom must be out of sight due to the Revenants. I still have no clue how to beat them. Big swarms with Termagaunts don`t work either, as they are FF5+ (Guardians are 4+) and there were enough Rangers (12 to be exact) to kill the Warriors on sight.
I managed a 0-0, killed 100VP and lost around 900.

Game three was against Guard.
I played against Germany. I made a major mistake with the Dom, which was sniped by a Shadowsword. The missing Shields are really a pain. The T-Bolts he played were enough to place blast markers everywhere he wanted, which was really annoying. Overall a minor win 1-0.

Game four was against Minervan Tank Legion.
I played against Erik from Sweden. I never played Minervans before and was very nervous, facing so much stuff eager to kill me, while I had just so few MW and only the two TK attacks at my Dom (yeah, SURE). He had only one squad of Tbolts, otherwise I would had been in major trouble. Again I missed any long range support (I don't own Dactylises), the Biovores and Zoans beeing too slow to be where I wanted them to be. The "Fex Swarm" also waited behind some bushes the whole game because there was so little terrain. Not really representive game. 2-0 win.

Game five against Steve54
Steve played double T-Hawk, Terminators, drop podding Devastators and much more stuff. This game shows perfectly the extreme weakness of Tyranids to mobile and airforce heavy lists. I had 4 Zoans and the Dom for AA, which was simply not enough. No chance to drop the THawks out of the air, no chance to kill the speeders (due to lack of Dactylises or other indirect firing stuff). Again, some FF'ing scouts would be nice. Game won 1-0

Overall I think the Tyranid list is weak. It has a really tight structure, has some issues with Gargoyles, weak Lictors, is terrible at AA, is terrible at scout screening and very, very slow. At first, it sounds like a very mobile army due to the 20cm. But this does not help in assaulting. And the 25cm from the Malefactor are not helping that much. I started Nids with this list but will probably go back and play the UK version instead. In my opinion it fixes some stuff really "Nid-Like" and it overall "feels" better. My favorite unit from the UK list for example is the Spore cluster - Scout, 6 Bases, FF and AA. Not really much, but thematic and fixes some major issues with the NetEA Nids. It fixes the scouting problem, stops the enemy army from major advances so that the ground troops have more time to press onward, the own table half can be secured against incoming THawks landing in the Nid half in the last turn. The tight structure could be broken up by introducing a "Heavy Swarm" or something similar. The Dominatrix could be priced higher but given 6DC. This way, it MAY survive some MW/TK fire wthout relying on artifical shields. Oh and give Gargoyles AA. That would make them so much more useful.

This is not about making Nids unbeatable, it is about making them go par with lists like Krieg. Please don't be offended by this, it is just my observation after around 20-30 games with this list

edit:
@Steve
Yeah, thats basicaly correct. The Dom is nothing you want to move around, it is too vulnerable and useful in the back. It has a really good AA and the Barrage is just insanely good. But in the end, they can't enter assaults due to the Fexes beeing slow (no infiltrator) and don't survive long enough at the front to stay one round in the open.

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Interesting feedback!
Especially since my experience as a Tyranid player is quite different. The automatic rally is quite strong, I agree, but I always felt it enforces the "living tide" character.
The swarming on the other hand, I never get enough points to really make a difference. Even in Big or Huge swarms, I usually only get 2-3 bases, which doens't make a real difference (we are talking Gaunts here after all).
I don't know about shooting, I have a very "in-your-face" kind of style of playing Tyranids, and offensively I find them quite capable (I usually use Swarms with Hive Tyrants and Carnifex). CC Gaunts have Infiltrator, which is nice too.

I think opponent POV is extremely important, so no offense taken. I will add a Largo-esque post about my specific games during EEC and an overall impression of the Nids later tonight. I will try to get some games in with the EUK list, but from a first glance, it looks extremely powerful with the Grot rule in place. Worse initiative and no Spawning granted, it will be interesting.

As an aside, I think Largo W's army and mine were extremely similiar, and since both of us have played them a lot, I think I can tell you why. Will try to add an army list note as well.

/Fredmans

In my EEC list, I had two swarms with extra warrior, so I had a potential of 3x(3), and 3x(2) in Swarming, spawning back 9-15 gaunts every turn. Except for the game against Rug's Eldar, I practically had all my gaunts on the table every turn. There was one exception when I lost one infantry swarm to shooting and had won two bloody assaults, when I had one nid left in the Swarming Pool after swarming.

I actually played the NetEA Nids with the Grot rule all the time against my regular opponents. It was pointed out by borka in the first round that they actually count towards combat resolution. The combination of Swarming and Grot rule makes them nearly unbeatable. Against Orks for example, it is very, very hard to beat them. So I would highly object to combine the Grot rule and the swarming. Perhaps loose it all together and just make the swarms bigger? I think it is too strong anyway, remember that you get them back after marshal as well!

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it is no true Grot rule AFAIK; they count for combat resolution just fine (which means you still have to be careful what you are doing), but you don't get BMs for them being killed by shooting.

with a true Grot rule, they would be way overpowered.

@fredmans:

I usually have some swarms which are medium size at maximum. Usually I field Hive Tyrants, so I get 4 swarming points for a med swarm. If I am close to the enemy and/or broken, swarming is esentially pointless - 1 base of Gaunts is for nothing.