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[OLD] Tyranid Army List v10.2
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=25272		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  Dave [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  [OLD] Tyranid Army List v10.2
Some changes from the games from the past year. More playtests are always welcome.

Special Rules

Changed Swarming so it grows with the # of synapse units. No more dice, just add up the Synapse Value in the formation. Halve it if broken or with 30cm, or don't swarm if both. Dropped Augmented Swarming as it's no longer needed now. This ought to make the bigger swarms more attractive, as their swarming ability grows linearly with the small formation.

Stats

  • Dactylis and Exocrine dropped from CC4+ to CC5+ (making slightly more vulerable in assault)
  • Gargoyles got IC (armed with flamers in the old fluff, and trying to make them more appealing)
  • Heirodule and Heirophant got some weapon swaps (making the 'dule less long range)
  • Hormagaunts bumped from CC4+ to CC3+ (trying it out, people claimed they weren't as good as 'gants)
  • Trygon dropped from FF5+ to FF6+ (trying out for points issues)

Army List

  • dropped Meiotic spores (focusing on old fluff, they can be in a new list)
  • all WEs now fall under 1/3 rule (addressing little WE spam)
  • only stealers and lictors can garrison (prevents Exocrine and Dactylis garrison)
  • Genestealers (removed mandatory brood lord)
  • harridan (upped costs for M and L)


Attachments:
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Author:  SpeakerToMachines [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
Dave wrote:
Some changes from the games from the past year. More playtests are always welcome.

Will do :)
Dave wrote:
Special Rules

Changed Swarming so it grows with the # of synapse units. No more dice, just add up the Synapse Value in the formation. Halve it if broken or with 30cm, or don't swarm if both. Dropped Augmented Swarming as it's no longer needed now. This ought to make the bigger swarms more attractive, as their swarming ability grows linearly with the small formation.

It's also a strong incentive to add extra warriors, which is a good thing. Warriors were a bit sub-par in 10.1.
Dave wrote:

Stats

  • Dactylis and Exocrine dropped from CC4+ to CC5+ (making slightly more vulerable in assault)

I thought "always being dangerous in CC" was kind of a Tyranid feature?
Dave wrote:
  • Gargoyles got IC (armed with flamers in the old fluff, and trying to make them more appealing)

    • They needed something, for sure. Perhaps this is it.
    Dave wrote:
  • Heirodule and Heirophant got some weapon swaps (making the 'dule less long range)

    • That's OK, the shooty 'dule was a bit of an oddity (although very useful).
    - From a modeling perspective, it would be great if the main weapons symbiotes on the Bio-titans were "0-1x (pick 2)"
    - What happened to the Hierophant Bio-cannon? It's the weapon used on the modern Hierophant, it seems natural that the precursors had it too. Especially since the original Hierophant kits comes with something that looks a lot like a bio-cannon...
    Dave wrote:
  • Hormagaunts bumped from CC4+ to CC3+ (trying it out, people claimed they weren't as good as 'gants)

    • Good.
    Dave wrote:
  • Trygon dropped from FF5+ to FF6+ (trying out for points issues)

    • OK
    Dave wrote:

    Army List

    [list][*]dropped Meiotic spores (focusing on old fluff, they can be in a new list)

    Weren't there spores in the old fluff?
    Dave wrote:
    [*]all WEs now fall under 1/3 rule (addressing little WE spam)

    Fine.
    Dave wrote:
    [*]only stealers and lictors can garrison (prevents Exocrine and Dactylis garrison)

    The Dactylis and Exocrine Swarms needs a price drop, then. A major use for them was Overwatch guard against turn 1 deep strikes; Genestealers and Lictors aren't useful for that, and now the list has no effective protection against that type of attack. Also, having to start them in the deployment zone means an effective turn less utility, since they are so slow.
    Dave wrote:
    [*]Genestealers (removed mandatory brood lord)

    Thanks!
    Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:46 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    There weren't Meiotic Spores. Several types of Biovore-launched spores that could also be taken independantly, yes.
    Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:43 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Looking forward to a game or two with this list.
    Author:  fredmans [ Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:56 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Good call on those changes (WE, Broodlords).

    My main concern is the Exocrine swarm and the new Vanguard rule. It seems to be very slow WITH short range to boost. Maybe Movement 20cm?

    The Swarming rule seems appropriate, it even gives incentive for the extra warrior option.

    I do not know if this will make people take Gargoyles. I think with Brood (2), that it could go to +20 points. Maybe people will never take regular gaunts then, but I am not sure people do anyway.

    I like the Titan change. I preferred the 'dule due to the better armament. Better weapons for bigger titans, just like in all the other armies.

    Will happily play this list. I have some games coming up real soon against Space Wolves, Eldar and Orks.

    /Fredmans
    Author:  Dave [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:04 am ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    I'm with you guys on the Exocrine garrison thing. I disallowed it as I thought it felt odd that the Tyranids would be protecting their front line with a unit like this, or really even protecting their line at all. The vanguard rule is meant to portray the army as more of a purely offensive force. Push forward, consume, move on. I can see stealers and Lictors ranging ahead in these instances, not Exocrine though. Stats/points might have to change because of this, yes.

    StM, more weapon options for the bio-titans is possible. It'll make them harder to balance though. My plan was to save it for a bio-titan heavy list.
    Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:12 am ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    maybe change the rule so that only lictors and stealers can garrisson of a non-blitz objective?
    Author:  SpeakerToMachines [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:46 am ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Dave wrote:
    I'm with you guys on the Exocrine garrison thing. I disallowed it as I thought it felt odd that the Tyranids would be protecting their front line with a unit like this, or really even protecting their line at all. The vanguard rule is meant to portray the army as more of a purely offensive force. Push forward, consume, move on. I can see stealers and Lictors ranging ahead in these instances, not Exocrine though. Stats/points might have to change because of this, yes.

    Why would anyone use Lictors as garrisons, even from a fluff perspective? They appear from hiding where least expected, they don't form lines of defense...

    Genestealers I can see, lurking in the settlements they ravaged until the swarm arrives. But it's tactically unsound to use them as a forward screen, without shooting or FF ability they get picked off very easily. They can be used as a anti-teleporter screen, or as a countercharge unit. But as a general scout screen, they are a speed bump at best (which is sad since they are supposed to be really fearsome).

    Dave wrote:
    StM, more weapon options for the bio-titans is possible. It'll make them harder to balance though. My plan was to save it for a bio-titan heavy list.

    By all means leave exotic Weapons for future lists. It's just odd that the Hierophant can't have Biocannons, when the only arm gun is listed as a Biocannon in the '99 catalog. The Bile launchers, on the other hand, do not appear in the catalog. The Hierodules (identical) arm gun is a Biocannon, which seems confusing. Identically modelled guns should have identical stats.

    I can understand the Pyro-acid spray not being represented on the model (like the Dominatrix Energy Pulse).

    If you want only barebones biotitans, I'd suggest something like this:

    Hierodule (pick any two):
    0-2 Biocannon
    0-1 Cluster spines
    0-1 Razorclaw

    Hierophant (pick any two):
    0-2 Biocannon
    0-2 Razorclaw

    That matches the options available in the catalog, which should count for something in an "old-school" list.
    Author:  Dave [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:00 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    SpeakerToMachines wrote:
    It's just odd that the Hierophant can't have Biocannons, when the only arm gun is listed as a Biocannon in the '99 catalog.


    Ah, that would be because all the weapons were renamed for Epic 40k. If you go by the original SM/TL distinctions what I did might be a little clearer.

    http://www.galactic-intrigue.com/epicol ... ities.html

    I based it off what I saw on the box art for them, and one weapon swap.
    Author:  SpeakerToMachines [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:16 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Dave wrote:
    Ah, that would be because all the weapons were renamed for Epic 40k.


    OK, thanks. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, and all that.

    I'd still like if both bio-titans had the possibility to mount a bio-cannon, though. It seems like an iconic weapon, with the other gun-options being more exotic.
    Author:  Dave [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:06 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Try it out like that then. I'm not married to the armaments, just trying to cut down on what needs to be tested and balanced.
    Author:  Blip [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:52 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Just to let you know my group play tested the 10.2 list last night for the first time (against SMs.)

    Much fun was had, but lets call it a "learning experience" for the nids ! Now we have a feel for it we hope to put in some decent games in over the coming weeks.

    First impressions are good - our only niggle was AA. I know there is history here which i haven't trawled the whole archive for so don't jump on us ! ;) Just seems like Gargoyle and Zoanthrope stats are out of step with both EA and Leviathan.

    Zoanthropes just acted as a handbrake on the whole swarm. Any chance they might go 20cm move instead ?

    We couldn't see why the Gargoyle "swarming" towards fliers for the end phase was seen as a problem ? Don't suppose they might come back (maybe with a limit on numbers?)

    The drifting spore clouds seemed even more fluffy. I understand they weren't an actual unit in the 1990s but the concept was definitely in the fluff and as SM2 had no special rules for AC this seems fine to add in for EA imho...

    Most importantly these short range suicide swarms mobbing planes out of the sky seemed very much in keeping with the nid background and marked them out from the other armies. 'tropes sniping at them at range just seemed like all other AA flack guns.

    Cheers.
    Author:  Dave [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:59 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Definitely like to see some reports from you guys if you can manage.

    On the AA, it's supposed to be crap. I took the AA off the gargoyles because of the swarming like you said, it just seemed gamey given that the AC stay on table until the end phase.

    Having played nearly all my games with the Zoanthropes at 15cm, I can't say it's a huge break. You can stretch brood to them to make things work.
    Author:  Blip [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:35 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Thanks for the answers.

    I have to agree, the swarming AC with flack in the end phase does seem gamey when you're talking about Hydras and the like (though kinda explained by radar etc monitoring enemy AC in the air and ordering ground troops into position to take up suitable firing positions) however with nids it just seemed fuffey. Huge flocks of gargles takign off to mob incoming AC in response to strikes while pilots desperately find a way through the swarm after their bombing run... anyway. Will let you know how we get on.
    Author:  Blip [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:39 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: Tyranid Army List v10.2
    Must say, we loved the swarming rules (well ok, the SMs didn't so much ! ;D )
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