Tactical Command

List comparison
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Author:  Dobbsy [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  List comparison

I was comparing a Nid base formation versus a Marine Tactical formation and here's what I found when looking at the two Nid lists....

For 275 points you can buy:

Onachus: 2 Warriors, 6 Gaunts + either 2 more Gaunts and 1 Ravener OR 1 Warrior and a Biovore/Zoanthrope/Gargoyle. Also there's a couple of other options but they all pan out to roughly 10-11 units

Leviathan: 2 Warriors, 8 Gants and 4 Horms. 14 units.

How much of an issue is it if the same cost provides one list a better output than the other?

Author:  frogbear [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparisons

I have not looked, but if the special rules are the same, then you may have well found a disparity.

If however one of those lists did not have spawning, then the disparity would be represented by this.

Like I stated, I have not looked as yet but that is my initial view.

Author:  Dobbsy [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparison

As far as I know, they use the same swarming rule.

On separate but slightly related topic of mild interest to some(me mainly :D )...

Now, I'm hoping my maths are correct (someone correct me) but... a Tactical formation in defense versus the above Leviathan formation in an assault that's properly prepared (Tacs have BMs, Nids don't etc) will see the Tacticals lose 66.66% of the time as the result is most likely a +3 result to the Nids (i.e minimum Nids result is a 4 and Marines max is 5 or 6(from the die roll alone) so have 2 chances in 6 to win.

On the attack, the Tacticals will win/lose 50% of the time due to only having a +2 result.

Author:  frogbear [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparison

Tacticals have a 45cm shot + Rhinos, ATSKNF, and air support. That is significant.

It does not work unless you compare apples with at least another similar fruit ;)

Author:  Dobbsy [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparison

Yeah no I wasn't comparing just making an observation :)

Author:  adam77 [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparison

I think that method of estimating assault outcomes will get a result in the right ball park but could easily be out by +/-10%.

(See this thread for an experiment on estimating assault outcomes.)
(You can use this calculator to play around with various scenarios.)

Author:  Borka [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparison

On the topic of list comparison: There's also a big difference between the carnifexes. In Leviathan you get them for 33-41 points but in tyranids v.10 they cost 50p. I guess playtest will see which pricing is more accurate.

Author:  zombocom [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparison

The disparity in the original suggestion is partly due to the hormagaunt downgrade to 1xcc4+, which I feel makes them worth less than termagants, so I've dropped their price. Dave hasn't.

There will be price discrepancies between the two lists since they use wildly different construction systems.

Author:  arkturas [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparison

These discrepancies where also there before the unification. The stats in Leviathan now are on the whole weaker than what was in the previous version. I'm assuming Zombo was reasonably happy with the previous stats to points cost so any reductions in cost to represent weaker stats will enhance the disparity. How it all pans out is all part of the fun.

Author:  zombocom [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List comparison

Yup, we'll see how it all shakes out in the mix. Both Dave and I are largely totally guessing points costs at this stage.

The two different list construction methods are a bit of an experiment too; if one ends up working a lot better than the other we can move to using it in both lists.

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